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Oscillating RPM When Driving

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Old Nov 5th, 2019, 21:31   #1
eric19371
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Unhappy Oscillating RPM When Driving

Hello everybody,

Two days ago I noticed that the RPM oscillates when driving under light load with my V50. I found a thread on another forum that has a video that shows this issue perfectly although there was no solution/cause posted so I am hoping that one of the many mechanical guru's here can help.

It is a 2004 V50 with a 2.4i engine, automatic gearbox and 131k miles.

It starts fine, idles fine, seems to drive fine, but this oscillation is worrying me. If I put it into manual (push the stick left) then the oscillation doesn't seem to be present so I am guessing it is something with the gearbox not being able to fully engage a gear or the clutch is slipping, or something... (do automatics have a clutch?)

Video: https://youtu.be/IajaS7Nk2bk

Forum link: https://www.picoauto.com/support/viewtopic.php?t=16251

I have just had to spend £400 on sorting the front suspension so the last thing I need is another hefty repair bill. :-(
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Old Nov 5th, 2019, 23:40   #2
PaddyB
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Gearbox oil is old or out-of-spec. Not uncommon in autos. The only way to fix the symptom is to change the oil to whatever is recommended (or better).

If it's old (i.e. it's done 131k) then the oil & filter will need doing _sooner_ rather than later - they'll likely be debris in the oil which can damage your box. If it's been changed recently (like at 100k) then you may be OK for a while.

It's generally not a hard job if you're handy with a spanner. Ask around for a price if you don't fancy it
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Old Nov 8th, 2019, 09:54   #3
dme123
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That's the torque converter lockup clutch failing to engage properly. I had the same issue with a ZF6HP automatic gearbox in an S-Type Jaguar. Anything newer than a 4 speed auto uses controlled slip lock-up, and yours isn't controlling the slip properly. Presumably when you put the transmission into "geartronic" manual shift mode it keeps the TC unlocked for faster shifting.

Changing the oil may help, but medium case you may need a new/refurb torque converter. If it's shifting fine otherwise you should get the fluid changed and see if that fixes it, but you should be aware that 130k miles isn't an uncommon mileage for these 5 speed AW boxes to fail at, if they've never had a fluid change.
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Old Nov 9th, 2019, 21:49   #4
eric19371
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Update: I ran it with a diagnostics tool connected and once it had warmed up it kept flipping between "Slipping lock up" and "Fix lock up" every now and again on a fairly flat surface at a constant speed. Yes, when it was in 'geartronic' it seemed ok. The gearbox doesn't seem to be noticeably slipping otherwise.

I also looked through the receipts I got with the car. They were all mostly main dealer up until two years ago (it was very well looked after) and there was no mention of the transmission fluid being changed or topped up (this was listed on the dealer check list as 'n/a'). I can therefore assume that it has never been changed.

I have been quoted £200 by my local reputable garage to change the transmission oil, of which half the cost is the oil and the rest being labour. I have seen second hand gearboxes on eBay for £500 (condition questionable?), and £1,800 +vat for a new gearbox.

This car has been otherwise reliable and apart from £400 for new front shocks hasn't cost me much in maintenance (it did also cost £300 for three new tyres and £250 for a spare key). I only bought it in March this year for £1,800 but what with all this and my last car being destroyed by an engine fire at the start of the year* I am wondering if I am cursed and I should just put it on eBay for £800 and go and get myself a pedal bike...

* https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidsto...r-park-199942/
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Last edited by eric19371; Nov 9th, 2019 at 21:56. Reason: additional text and bad spelling
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Old Nov 9th, 2019, 23:03   #5
lockstock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric19371 View Post
Update: I ran it with a diagnostics tool connected and once it had warmed up it kept flipping between "Slipping lock up" and "Fix lock up" every now and again on a fairly flat surface at a constant speed. Yes, when it was in 'geartronic' it seemed ok. The gearbox doesn't seem to be noticeably slipping otherwise.

I also looked through the receipts I got with the car. They were all mostly main dealer up until two years ago (it was very well looked after) and there was no mention of the transmission fluid being changed or topped up (this was listed on the dealer check list as 'n/a'). I can therefore assume that it has never been changed.

I have been quoted £200 by my local reputable garage to change the transmission oil, of which half the cost is the oil and the rest being labour. I have seen second hand gearboxes on eBay for £500 (condition questionable?), and £1,800 +vat for a new gearbox.

This car has been otherwise reliable and apart from £400 for new front shocks hasn't cost me much in maintenance (it did also cost £300 for three new tyres and £250 for a spare key). I only bought it in March this year for £1,800 but what with all this and my last car being destroyed by an engine fire at the start of the year* I am wondering if I am cursed and I should just put it on eBay for £800 and go and get myself a pedal bike...

* https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidsto...r-park-199942/
if it were me, I would live with it, keep it in geartronic mode and spend no more on it. Id probs not even change gear oil. I'd then try to eek 2 years out of the car, putting as little money in as possible and save for a replacement when the gearbox gives up, could be a long way down the road.
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Old Nov 9th, 2019, 23:20   #6
barrybritcher
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if you dont cane it you can go a couple years with new fluid
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Old Apr 11th, 2020, 12:16   #7
eric19371
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Default Time For An Update - Slipping Lock-Up

It has been several months bit I have an update on the fluctuating RPM issue.

Finally having spare funds to pay for it, I took my V50 to the garage to have the oil changed last week. When I called them later that day the garage told me they were having problems getting a service kit for it and they though it might be a main dealer only part but they weren't answering.

Knowing that the current Covid-19 restrictions were impacting many businesses I emailed my local main dealer (Lipscomb, Maidstone) myself and a few hours later received a reply (were my garage actually trying?). There is no service kit, all you can do in the gearbox (an AW55-50) is change the oil. The staff member at the dealer also sent me a full breakdown of the gearbox that was on my car with diagrams and parts lists. All super helpful. With the information he had provided I found further information on a third party website that described the differences between the AW55-50 on different brands of cars and some Volvo only features.

V50 then went to garage and a couple of days later was done (there was no hurry). Total cost was £150 which I thought was very good especially and the oil was 'special expensive stuff'.

That drive home the problem was still there. No surprise I thought, the oil needs time to work its magic. Second drive out and it seemed perfect. No real fluctuation, well maybe a little but nothing you would worry about. Was it fixed? This was a longer drive so maybe this is what it needed. Third drive out, a fairly short drive, and there is was back again, a good 200 rpm fluctuation. Damn it.

I have not given up though, firstly it has only had two short drives, and one moderate one. Secondly and more interesting for me is one of the things I read about the gearbox, some Volvo only features, specifically relating to 'Slipping Lock-up'.

The first link I found mentioned 'Volvo Shift Modes', specifically 'Locking Slip-up' where it described the symptoms exactly. This makes me think, is it actually not a fault but it is incorrectly enabling and disabling too frequently?

https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resource...urers-part-one

Slipping Lock-up – Slipping lock-up mode allows for a smoother lock-up engagement while reducing vibration and noise. The computer maintains a 50 to 200 RPM torque converter clutch slip in this mode. The following conditions must be met for this mode to activate:

Gear shifter must be in the D, 4, or 3 position.
Transmission must be in 3rd, 4th, or 5th gear.
The transmission input speed must be 1100 RPM or higher and the throttle opening must be 35% or less.
Engine coolant must reach a certain temperature.
Transmission oil temperature must be at least 40°C (104°F), but not to exceed 120°C (248°F).


Over the next few weeks I will continue to test the V50 and also carry out further research. I have not given up on it yet and I am hoping a full solution can be found that doesn't involve £1,800 for a new gearbox. I really like the V50 and would if it is economical to do so, keep it.

#2 link: https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resource...dy-information
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Old Oct 6th, 2020, 18:23   #8
eric19371
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Just a quick update on this issue. Six months and two thousand miles later and it is still doing exactly the same. No worse, no better. Going to keep using it until it gives up.
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Old Oct 6th, 2020, 18:29   #9
barrybritcher
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how many litres did they put in, did they drain and fill or did they flush it.

you will need to run through about 10-15 litres through to get it back to factory colour
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Old Oct 9th, 2020, 18:06   #10
eric19371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrybritcher View Post
how many litres did they put in, did they drain and fill or did they flush it.

you will need to run through about 10-15 litres through to get it back to factory colour
I understand it was just a drain and fill. Tempted to do it again. Good idea? Bad idea?
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oscillating revs, oscillating rpm, varying revs, varying rpm


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