V90 inside london's ULEZ

[derek vivian]

And I meant to say that whatever it costs by TFL charge to travel by my Volvo V90 car into the ULEZ in London I shall have to cost that in as I suspect so will all other drivers whose cars are not exempt!

[TonyS9]

Originally Posted by derek vivian

So we need to plant more trees throughout the land especially in towns and cities and of the variety that suck CO from the atmosphere? I will just enjoy my Volvo then and forget all this talk of climate warming?

A ULEZ is for pollutants such as CO, Unburnt HCs, NOx and particles, not CO2. Cats do a good job of the first 3 in petrol, but diesel produces more NOx than a cat can deal with, so it needs the very latest high output urea injection to absorb it.,, and then all the features to ensure it is maintained and keeps working.

Trees don't reduce pollution from the atmostphere although they do provide some cleaning action when they are wet.

Trees mainly help with climate change from CO2, this has nothing to do with ULEZ. Climate change is global, CO2 doesn't degrade and accumulates in the atmostphere. Pollution generally dissipates after a few days, its reactive and also oxidises or simply washes into the sea and soil. CO2 isn't reactive, this is why it isn't called pollution.

It is likley your Volvo will meet the minimum standards or could be made to meet them, but it will cost many thousands to certify it. The only mods likely to be accepted on a visual inspection is a full EV conversion.

[TonyS9]

Originally Posted by derek vivian

I was hoping to get someone of engineering qualification to look at Cats to see if they can be improved, but also to design one to fit gas boilers. If we can it will ease back all this talk of forcing us to buy electric cars or to replace our boilers for very expensive ground or air heat devices. I can't afford either so I want to keep my V90 please. Come on you engineers!

Gas boilers burn very cleanly, they are not a local pollution problem and are quite efficient, in many cases they are considered an environmental upgrade from oil. You can actually see this in the emissions standards, like the diesel standard, Kerosene boilers are allowed more NOx and particles than gas because they are much harder to clean up.

A cat will only solve pollution problems on kerosene boilers.

In the past gas boilers did produce CO if starved of oxygen, which was a very dangerous pollutant/poison. Today there are balanced and heat exchanged flues rather than indoor inlets.

The only problem with gas boilers today is the CO2 they produce.

[derek vivian]

I would be interested TonyS9 to know how my V90 (1997 version) could be made to be more efficient to meet, for example, ULEZ standards even knowing it would cost thousands. Can you give any ideas on this and who might be able to do it please? Being retired now I have little else to spend my money on!

[TonyS9]

Originally Posted by derek vivian

I would be interested TonyS9 to know how my V90 (1997 version) could be made to be more efficient to meet, for example, ULEZ standards even knowing it would cost thousands. Can you give any ideas on this and who might be able to do it please? Being retired now I have little else to spend my money on!

Its not really efficiency you are looking for its pollution reduction, however you might be able to achieve both. You are getting into the relms of engine development.

An engine tuner might be able to do it with a more modern aftermarket ECU. Maybe bump up the compression ratio. That could get into £10K, then certification might cost £10K or more. To be honest car emissions are not my bag, I'm more into electrical emissions, but such reguatory things cost alot.
To be fair this is not something engine tuners are used to doing, you might need to contract a real Engineer, but some of them seem knowledgeable.

I have an arduino based MPG + fuel flow meter on my 940 Turbo and it seems to overfuel alot more than it needs to, so I'm sure with a better fuel+spark management it can be improved.

Its hard to say if this would be cheaper or more expensive than an EV conversion (maybe £30-£40K depending on what you want), but an EV conversion will be better in the long term. Been looking at electric lorry axles, they are the same design as the 940 live axle and could be modified to fit, they might even make a custom one. Or if you have IRS, you can fit a tesla motor fairly easily.

The EV conversion is more of an established business, you can get a quote and they will know more about the ULEZ and how to certify with electric. Upgrading existing engines emissions is more a a manufacturing design exersise and big unknown, you could be getting into £100s of 000s.

There might be interest in the tuning community for upgrades for self tuning, wire harness adaptors, but not a huge amount, but if you pay the NRE costs someone might make one (ie like a ECU company).

I would start with an engine tuner anyway and see if they can test the emissions to see if its worth trying to certify as is.

[tofufi]

Originally Posted by TonyS9

Its not really efficiency you are looking for its pollution reduction, however you might be able to achieve both. You are getting into the relms of engine development.

I'm not aware of any way in which the emissions data shown on the V5C can be altered.

I did read a while ago about it not being possible to change the fuel type shown on the V5C to 'electric' from conventional fuel types - as the DVLA just don't have a system in place to recognise that sort of conversion.

The place to start would be to contact the DVSA and ask if there is a route to changing the vehicle fuel type or emissions values shown on the V5C.

Without the change being recognised, there's no benefit in terms of being allowed into ULEZ areas etc

[TonyS9]

Some further information

According to my MOT test, which only looks at idle.

CO: 0.83% measured (limit is 3.5% for this 95 year of car)
HC: 103ppm measured (limit is 1200ppm for this 95 year)

Euro 4 petrol limit needed for ULEZ is
CO: 1g/km
HC: 0.1g/km
NOx: 0.08
(Euro 5+6 are not much different for petrol)

A 1997 car should Euro 2 I think
Euro 2 limits are:
CO:2.2g/km
HC+NOx=0.5g/km

Presumably this is while running a WLTP cycle, so that can be expensive to use a lab to certify this.

The problems tuners will have is they will probably not be able to accumulate emissions or measure total output, they can only measure ppm.

While my results from the redblock are very good idle, this is easy to achieve, the reality of unpredictable loads and slow response sensors is very different. Modern cars use MAP (manifold pressure) to measure load more quickly than MAF (airflow) and you can certainly upgrade to this, maybe improve efficiency with wideband lambda, but its still going to be hit and miss if you can meet the standards.

Anything is possible with enough money, but you could be looking at £100K to do the development work and fine tune the engine management, just to fix a small issue at some point in the load band.

[TonyS9]

Originally Posted by tofufi

I'm not aware of any way in which the emissions data shown on the V5C can be altered.

I did read a while ago about it not being possible to change the fuel type shown on the V5C to 'electric' from conventional fuel types - as the DVLA just don't have a system in place to recognise that sort of conversion.

The place to start would be to contact the DVSA and ask if there is a route to changing the vehicle fuel type or emissions values shown on the V5C.

Without the change being recognised, there's no benefit in terms of being allowed into ULEZ areas etc

The V5C is a good source for information, however my Dec 1996 N.Ireland V5C does not include any emissions data atall. It may that it wasn't required to be declared then and you only had to meet the limits.

I assumed this is a certification issue, but yes you may need to entirely register a new type of vehicle. Are kit cars now excluded from the ULEZ (unless a Euro 4+ Engine + emission control is used). Maybe thats another option..to swap out the engine for a euro 4 engine?

If a mfr can do it, with enough money someone else can do it. You could maybe enter/register a new model, or just add the certificate if you can pay for it, but as I've said such things can be very expensive and usually not worthwhile. It will be cheaper to just pay the fee, even if there are no mods to make.

You also might run into trouble if you have to completely certify the car and meet all new regulations such as stability control (ESC or whatever it is).

[derek vivian]

Thanks for giving details of your MOT test. As for spending all those thousands changing various engine details on my V90 I will forgo all that and as I am only likely these days to stray into ULEZ once or twice a year at most I will be able to afford the charge! Anyway, back to MOT info. My MOT test states that for fast idle of 2500 - 3000 rpm the CO was 0.08 % against a limit of 0.20% and for natural idle of 450-1500 rpm the CO was 0.29% against the limit of 0.30%.It also states the for fast idle HC was 33ppm against limit of 200ppm and for natural idle no details given! Should one be able to challenge the decision by TFL in their web site that says my V90 1997 will be chargeable in ULEZ? If so anyone any idea about doing this? I note TonyS9 you gave CO of 2.2.g/km to achieve Euro 2, but I am unable to convert this to % as given in my MOT cert. All a bit confusing, but if anyone can unravel it I am sure it will be most helpful to Volvo owners.

[Forrest]

You are still coming at this from the angle of science and real-world facts. Those have no place in the cult of Climate Change which demands unquestioning faith, belief in the apocalypse, acknowledgement of the absolute truth of child prophets and willing self-denial on the altar of original sin.