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Diesel Engines A forum dedicated to diesel engines fitted to Volvo cars. See the first post in this forum for a list of the diesel engines. |
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Liqui Moly Diesel Purge Gone Wrong - Now barely startingViews : 6924 Replies : 28Users Viewing This Thread : |
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Apr 18th, 2021, 00:29 | #11 | ||
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No success yet.
Took the car out today to the shops. The engine cut out three times in the span of approximately 3 minutes/300 yards. Interestingly, no cut outs in the 2-mile journey after. All cut outs occurred at low revs/load, either on engine overrun or just barely accelerating from standstill, where the engine had well reached its operating temperature. The engine would fire again first time, every time, after cycling the ignition, which on a Geartronic means stopping and putting the gear selector into P. There were no cut-outs while the engine was warming up. A very similar issue was detailed in this post and was remedied (thus far) by fitting a replacement fuel pressure sensor. VIDA scan revealed ECM-2505 and ECM-2503, both pointing to a damaged fuel pressure sensor as a possible source of the DTC being triggered; however, there are other potential causes as well. Of the two DTCs, I suppose ECM-2503 is the key DTC to pay attention to as fuel is cut off when it is triggered (ECM-2505 only 'reduces' fuel). From VIDA: Quote:
Quote:
In the meantime, if anybody has any insight on the below, I would appreciate the advice:
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2004 XC90 D5 SE Geartronic 195000 miles Last edited by ca2n; Apr 18th, 2021 at 00:31. |
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Apr 18th, 2021, 03:22 | #12 |
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The fuel pressure regulator is bolted to the high pressure pump and has an electrical plug on it. They can be tricky to diagnose, but if they aren't working correctly they will cause fuel pressure deviations resulting in running issues. FPR's can fail in two ways. Either they won't allow enough fuel to cope with the need or demand, or they will allow excessive fuel to pass to the rail. Either way can cause running issues, including misfires and cutting out.
The cutting out symptom is normally as a result of a low pressure condition caused by a stuck or partially blocked FPR (when the FPR is the faulty component). You can unplug the FPR to see if the engine behaves any differently, but don't let it run for too long if it sounds like a machine gun. Of course the fault could also lie within the pump itself, but the FPR is quicker to check than the pump. You could try removing the FPR and cleaning it in something like an ultrasonic bath using a sensitive metals cleaning solution, or swap one out from a known working engine to see if it cures it. Codes 2505 and 2503 don't necessarily indicate that your fuel pressure sensor is damaged. The codes have been stored because the fuel pressure has dropped below the parameters expected at a specific engine operating condition, perhaps at the point the engine cuts out. These codes sound like symptoms of another problem and not the cause. I'd try the FPR on the pump first and go from there. Volvo call it a fuel control valve for reference.
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1996 850 T5 - Sold 2003 S40 1.9d - Sold 2004 S60 D5 |
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Apr 18th, 2021, 07:56 | #13 |
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Have you checked your air filter? A clogged or partially clogged air filter can cause a myriad of problems
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Apr 20th, 2021, 00:08 | #14 | |||
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Today I managed to replicate the problem with VIDA connected.
As VIDA allows a higher data sampling rate from the sensors (compared to my ELM327 + Torque Pro setup), I thought it might give better insight. As before, the engine would cut out seemingly randomly, but only once it had well reached operating temperature and only at low revs. Below is the data from the run. The engine cut out whilst I was doing a 3-point turn (well, it's a P2, so more a 7-point turn ). Two stutters and the engine cut off. The FPR current shoots up immediately after ignition is cut, and stays that way until the key is cycled from Pos 0 to Pos II. As with previous occurrences, starting always 1st time with the key. EDIT: Just noticed how the FPR current dropped "one grid line" during the engine stutter and cut out and increased again after the engine started again. FPR current would only reduce that much if engine revs are increased (see spike in fuel pressure and revs just before cut out). Hmmm... Zooming in, you can get a better view of the (indicated) fuel pressure drop during the stutter and engine cut out and how the fuel pressure drops before the FPR current rise. Conversely, if the ignition is killed with the key, the fuel pressure drops after the FPR current rise. This is the same data zoomed in towards the end. If there are any D5244T owners who don't mind sharing what their sensors report in similar conditions, it would be interesting to compare. And, no rush for this, as this has just got my attention:
What are the chances?? Easy job, this?
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2004 XC90 D5 SE Geartronic 195000 miles Last edited by ca2n; Apr 20th, 2021 at 00:17. Reason: Added more information |
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Apr 20th, 2021, 16:16 | #15 |
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Looks like a pin hole in the thermostat housing?
A thermostat is easy to replace on the euro 3.
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2007 S80 2.4 D5 - 110,000 miles |
Apr 20th, 2021, 21:16 | #16 |
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It will be a while before I could get data on mine.
The FPR does sound suspect though so perhaps check Vida Information >Specifications Electrical for the available data to compare. Re the thermostat, looks like it's been separated in the past and the seal has been breached. Best to replace the whole unit but genuine Volvo is £100 ish if not more. I have a brand new Wahler Thermostat, housing and coolant temperature sensor unit you could have for £75 delivered. Wahler make the genuine one and it's identical apart from "Volvo" is ground off the housing and it's in a Wahler box. Still has the Volvo part number stamped on the housing and the coolant temperature sensor and comes with a new gasket. I bought it a while ago but they're just too damn reliable so never needed to fit it.
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2002 S60 SE D5 Manual 209000 miles |
Apr 20th, 2021, 23:33 | #17 | |||
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Quote:
It does, yeah. It seems that access to the bottom bolt of the thermostat housing is a bit tight and involves moving the power steering components, aux belt, etc. out of the way, something I don't have a problem with; it's the putting things back together that gets me nervous! Quote:
It seems there is a resistance measurement that can be made; should be around 3 ohms. Quote:
My local Volvo dealership wanted £104 for it and were happy to have it ready for me sometime in May. I followed a link you posted on another thread and was just about to purchase it. I'm happy to take you up on your offer. PM incoming!On another note, what do you guys think about using a primer bulb on the inlet line to the HP pump to prime it, as opposed to pulling vacuum on the return line. Something like this, perhaps with some clear tubing:
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2004 XC90 D5 SE Geartronic 195000 miles Last edited by ca2n; Apr 20th, 2021 at 23:34. Reason: typo |
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Apr 20th, 2021, 23:53 | #18 |
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I prefer vacuuming.
Those cheap eBay/Amazon kits usually come with a jar which will catch the drips until you pull through a good solid stream of fuel.
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2002 S60 SE D5 Manual 209000 miles |
Apr 20th, 2021, 23:54 | #19 |
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The FPR could test ok with the resistance check, but it won't tell you if there's a blockage or mechanical wear within the regulator. I've fitted hand primer pumps to a few engines over the years, mostly diesel Fords as they can be awkward to start after changing the fuel filter. They should be fitted to more engines in my opinion, as when needed their convenience can be a great time saver. You can place it on the supply line to the HP pump no problem.
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1996 850 T5 - Sold 2003 S40 1.9d - Sold 2004 S60 D5 |
Apr 21st, 2021, 00:51 | #20 | ||
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Quote:
I have a very similar one to that which I used previously. The container fills up quickly though. And since it's pulling on the common return line, the diesel (and/or air) could be from the injectors or the HP pump, if I understand correctly. That being said, when I was priming with the diesel purge, it didn't take much effort from the vacuum pump to get the diesel purge introduced into the inline filter. Quote:
I can't disagree. Especially considering that the (potential) fault only happens when the FPR seemingly gets warm. Lower current, higher resistance?
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2004 XC90 D5 SE Geartronic 195000 miles |
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