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ETM Issues Discuss issues regarding the problems with ETMs fitted to Volvo cars.

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BBC Watchdog and Volvo ETM failures.

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Old Dec 13th, 2006, 14:39   #51
nigels60
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been experiencing poor idling on my s60 for weeks - very lumpy. Recently the situation has become far worse so a trip to the dealer was in order.

They mentioned a ETM possible problem and told me it would be £180 + VAT to clean, but if that failed £680+VAT more for a new ETM. When they got the car on the computer it was showing a MAF (Mass Air Meter) problem and said - oh thats your issue you need a new MAF. I had this replaced for £250 +vat yet the problem is as bad as ever. Only since a friend saw the watchdog article do i now know what is actually wrong.

Does anyone know ?

a) If VOSA are actively pursuing Volvo to issue a recall ? (I have already been involved in at least 1 near miss as a result of the problem - its definately a major safety hazard - someone is going to be killed sooner or later)
b) If the software upgrade actually does anything more than mask the problem?
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Old Dec 13th, 2006, 16:10   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigels60 View Post
been experiencing poor idling on my s60 for weeks - very lumpy. Recently the situation has become far worse so a trip to the dealer was in order.

They mentioned a ETM possible problem and told me it would be £180 + VAT to clean, but if that failed £680+VAT more for a new ETM. When they got the car on the computer it was showing a MAF (Mass Air Meter) problem and said - oh thats your issue you need a new MAF. I had this replaced for £250 +vat yet the problem is as bad as ever. Only since a friend saw the watchdog article do i now know what is actually wrong.

Does anyone know ?

a) If VOSA are actively pursuing Volvo to issue a recall ? (I have already been involved in at least 1 near miss as a result of the problem - its definately a major safety hazard - someone is going to be killed sooner or later)
b) If the software upgrade actually does anything more than mask the problem?
Nigel it is a shame you didn't read my reply to this thread after i went to Strastones of Ilford, the dealers are just trying to claw back some money or in my words ripping off the customer,

You must phone Volvo Customer services first and get a job number speak to Dan, then go back to the dealer and demand you want the part cleaning and the software upgrade and no other work is to be carried out, you will then know if it has sorted your problem or indeed the ETM will need replacing, at a later date,

Gary,
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Old Dec 13th, 2006, 19:20   #53
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Mr Jeff Sweeting is the VOSA man (Head of Vehicle Safety) taking an interest in this safety issue. His number is 0117 9543245. His email is

Jeffrey.Sweeting@vosa.gov.uk

I believe the software recall is as a result of his involvement. However, we'd all like it to go further.

And as for being charged for a MAF sensor when the dealer must have known of the ETM problem, and still having the same symptoms is tantamount to being criminal in my book.

I suggest you ring the person that owns the dealership to discuss. I suggest you also ring Volvo UK to report them.

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Old Dec 16th, 2006, 16:40   #54
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I heard via Watchdog about the ETM problem. My 2000 S80 2.9 suffered from very occasional erratic idle but when i heard about the ETM problem i figured it was the same problem, so i took it in to have it cleaned and new software. Alas, it was 10 times worse, idling up and down like a YoYo, and sometimes cutting out, which it did when going round a round about. Now i'm due to have a new ETM fitted at a cost of around £400 + VAT. Volvo will pay 30% towards the cost and my dealer will pay 10%, leaving me to pay 60% which equates to about £275. I think some dealers are ripping people of with the figures i see in this thread.

I spoke to Volvo customer services but they refused to pay any more. I will take Volvo UK to the small claims court and i urge others to do likewise. There has been 1 such case so far and i believe the Judge awarded in favour of the claiment + costs. The reasons i will do this are as follows:

- Volvo UK did not inform me by letter of the potentially dangerous problem and the need to have it cleaned/new software. I had to find it out via the TV.
- Volvo Sweden informed all 120,000 Volvo owners by letter a long time ago.
- http://www.fazmiclaw.com/Volvo.html makes terrifying reading, especially that Volvo internal documents are available showing that Volvo had known about the problem for years and knowingly fitted the defective parts even to production cars prior to 2003.

Cars from 2003 are fitted with a Bosch ETM i believe. The replacement ETMs we get are Italian and still subject to the same design flaw.

I will write to Volvo and if they don't cough up i will definately take them to the small claims court and i will drop a line to watchdog too, and also to a few choice newspapers.

regards
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Old Dec 16th, 2006, 16:53   #55
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Hi,
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Originally Posted by RLB View Post
I spoke to Volvo customer services but they refused to pay any more. I will take Volvo UK to the small claims court and i urge others to do likewise. There has been 1 such case so far and i believe the Judge awarded in favour of the claiment + costs. The reasons i will do this are as follows:

- Volvo UK did not inform me by letter of the potentially dangerous problem and the need to have it cleaned/new software. I had to find it out via the TV.
- Volvo Sweden informed all 120,000 Volvo owners by letter a long time ago.
- http://www.fazmiclaw.com/Volvo.html makes terrifying reading, especially that Volvo internal documents are available showing that Volvo had known about the problem for years and knowingly fitted the defective parts even to production cars prior to 2003.
Absolutely.
In the court case you mentioned only the dealer was taken to court as, obviously, the person had paid them the money.
This form of action - although setting some form of precident - is piecemeal.
Can I suggest that you ALSO have, as joint defendants in the case, Volvo UK.
They are ultimately responsible for this.
You may need to have a legal justification for doing this but a solisitor should be able to com up with one. He can also get the case notes and files from the person who successfully won his case.

The very best of luck with this..

It is a shame that Volvo have not been able to work out a way to get Bosch to build a replacement (that works!) or update cars to use the Bosch replacement used in later models..

Des. . .
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Old Dec 17th, 2006, 00:40   #56
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Not sure whether you can get Volvo UK as a defendant as well in the small claims court.

The case you refer to was mine, and this was done on the basis of the part not being fit for purpose under the sale of goods act, in that it was insufficiently durable.
The safety angle is not as clear cut, as in this country VOSA have not ruled that there is any safety issue with these cars, especially as Volvo have now agreed to clean the throttle body and upgrade the software free.

If you do take them to court though I wish you luck, the more people that take even the dealers to court, the more likely volvo are to accept responsibility for this problem.

Let me know if you want any more info on my case.
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Old Dec 17th, 2006, 12:46   #57
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The case you refer to was mine, and this was done on the basis of the part not being fit for purpose under the sale of goods act, in that it was insufficiently durable.
Volvo UK as the importer and official supplier can be pulled into the case for the supply of the part fitted because they are the oficial importer.

It would always be worth naming them as co-defendants, as they would then be required to make a representation to the court - whether they liked it or not.
If they failed to do so, they could find themselves on the loosing end as a Judge would be perfectly within his rights to find against them.
It would also cost them the price of a solicitor or two for the day!

You as the owner of the car would be perfectly within your rights to name them and pull them into the case because of the supply can only be obtained through them.
Access to your case notes and reference material would be a bonus to anyone going this way.
Scan to PDF and make available to the forum/VOC..

Des. . .
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Old Dec 19th, 2006, 11:39   #58
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Hi,
I have read a few threads now and there are many! The latest issue relates to the software upgrade which also throws an error into the alarm ECU! The software upgrade did not cure my misfiring and the garage are adamant that it is not the ETM at fault so want to have the car for a couple of days to get to the fault. Now I do not have thousands of spare pounds free for Volvo to carry out investigative surgery. But it seems that the crux of the issue relates to the ETM which is clearly failing on hundreds of thousands of cars.
If anyone has seen the film Class Action with Gene Hackman, this fault and the cost of it's replacement is being dealt with by the bean counters referred to in the film. These are number crunchers. In the US, Ford would have faced an inordinate amount of flack had they not attended to the issue.The same goes for Sweden. I think the attitude by Volvo/Ford that they will make a 'contribution' towards the cost is baseed on if the car has constantly been serviced in a Volvo garage (thereby making profit for the dealer so the contribution is a tiny percentage of overall profit.
My car is back in the garage for 2 days on 4/01/07. I am told that they will take parts from a donor car to address each of the fault codes until they have discounted every 'false' fault. If the issue relates to the ETM at that point they will contact Volvo for a 'contribution'. 2 weeks until that happens so in the meantime, its a Merry Xmas to you all and Happy new Year!
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Old Dec 19th, 2006, 12:41   #59
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Hello arvs31260,

If the dealer is doing a proper investigation, using donor parts, then that sounds good to me. I may well not be the ETM. If it is, then Volvo have said that the contribution to the replacement will be made based on age and milage of the car, not service history. This is as agreed with VOSA - see my thread:

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showth...highlight=vosa

Keep us posted on how you get on in January.

Oli
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