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Noisy Main Fuel Pump?

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Old Oct 25th, 2021, 21:42   #1
Steve 940
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Default Noisy Main Fuel Pump?

Hi,

Hope this is not in the wrong section, but have some questions about this issue even after reading the very detailed FAQ section on this subject.

Problem is a very noisy whirring main fuel pump under passenger seat, grovelled around and carrier didn't seem loose, just before I bought the car the pump and filter were replaced. Hose to fuel rail/engine had a rhythmic pulsing.

After digging around on forum pointers to perhaps a faulty in tank pump or fuel pressure regulator.

Don't have access currently to fuel pressure gauges, and not something I've done before so a bit wary to go down that route.

Tried listening at tank outlet, with key turned to kp2 but can hear only a very small, gurgle, like fuel trickling into tank for a second, but no motor sound.

Need to identify if it's working or not, FAQ seems to suggest going via relays/fuses and jumper wire, but was warnings about frying ECU if I grounded it in error, so I' m not too confident going down that route.

Separated harness under lead side locker, and have got 12.5v at pink wire that should be + to the pump.

Is it feasible to get spare 12v battery, and put positive to the pink wire to pump, and negative to the ground wire to the pump to see if the pump runs??

Concerns, if it runs, will it damage pump trying to push fuel when the rest of the system is off?

Tried Parts For Volvo today and seems they don't have my type of pump and seems tank gasket should be renewed and also not held, so rather trying to avoid opening it up if I can.

Appreciate any thoughts.

Cheers
Steve
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Old Oct 26th, 2021, 00:47   #2
Laird Scooby
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That'a a valid test using a slave battery to power the in-tank pump and no, you won't damage the pump.

The tank seal can be obtained easily from Volvo (about £11) and you could try Rock Auto for the pump.

https://www.rockauto.com/

Last in-tank pump i knew of that came from them was a couple of years back and was about £35 all in including Import Duty - price may have changed because of HMRC but shouldn't be a million miles away. Give me a shout if you have difficulty finding the pump, they only got the 940 until 1995 stateside and then not all models but without knowing what yours is, not sure which pump to suggest that would work.
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Old Oct 26th, 2021, 09:18   #3
Steve 940
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Hi Dave,

Many thanks for your suggestions, my car is 1994 940 Estate 2.0 Turbo, B200Ft with AW auto 4 speed box with lockup.

I just don't want to blunder into pulling the tank pump unit, as whilst it's been years since I last spent time crawling around under cars, I just know Sod's law always seems to strike. The more I've read into the FAQ sections about the process and the main pump carrier/filter under the car, I'm wary of damaging a pipe etc.

Just to clarify, split harness connector in rear cubby hole, then positive lead from spare battery to pink wire in connector to pump, and negative lead from battery to grouand to pump to see if it runs? How loud is it, will it be obvious it's running if it works in the tank?

Ideally I'd like to get all the main parts I may need along with new seals, stainless hose clips, new tank securing ring etc.

Many thanks for your suggestions regarding sourcing.

Cheers
Steve
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Old Oct 26th, 2021, 11:08   #4
Laird Scooby
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Originally Posted by Steve 940 View Post
Hi Dave,

Many thanks for your suggestions, my car is 1994 940 Estate 2.0 Turbo, B200Ft with AW auto 4 speed box with lockup.

I just don't want to blunder into pulling the tank pump unit, as whilst it's been years since I last spent time crawling around under cars, I just know Sod's law always seems to strike. The more I've read into the FAQ sections about the process and the main pump carrier/filter under the car, I'm wary of damaging a pipe etc.

Just to clarify, split harness connector in rear cubby hole, then positive lead from spare battery to pink wire in connector to pump, and negative lead from battery to grouand to pump to see if it runs? How loud is it, will it be obvious it's running if it works in the tank?

Ideally I'd like to get all the main parts I may need along with new seals, stainless hose clips, new tank securing ring etc.

Many thanks for your suggestions regarding sourcing.

Cheers
Steve
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...fuel+pump,6256

The Airtex E8186 should be the one you need Steve, Volvo usually have the sealing ring in stock and you won't have to crawl underneath to fit it either. Don't forget you'll need a new strainer for it (filter sock) but that should come up as an option to add to your basket if it's not already with the pump - i can't remember now.

Be careful when you power the in-tank pump from a spare battery, brown is the earth wire, pink is the +ve, the third one in the connector is for the sender - feeding that with +12V will likely result in lots of smoke and a permanently dead sender! Oh yeah, the heat might start the petrol burning too!

First step on removing the in-tank pump is to pull the rear headrests out, lift the rear seat bases and tip the rear seat backrests forwards. Now lift the carpeted flaps behind the seats to reveal 3 13mm nuts securing the floor covering - remove them and from the back, push the floor covering forwards to release it from its clips then remove the covering.

Now find the access panel, square ish secured with 4 screws with a 10mm head. Remove those and you will see the fuel pump/sender and the pipework/lock-ring.

After loosening the various hose clips, i used a length of wooden batten and a lump hammer to tap the lock ring round anti-clockwise to loosen it. Once loose/off, pull backwards slightly on the sender/pump flange to loosen it and lift slightly. Turn through 90 degrees and manoeuvre the pump/sender out of the tank, recovering the seal as you go.

You should be able to lift the pump/sender unit enough to lay it on the luggage area floor by now and swap the pumps over. Use some silicone grease on the new seal on both the inside (pump/sender) and outside (tank) to aid it slipping in nicely and then Haynes it - in other words reverse the procedure to get the pump/sender back in.

Smear some silicone grease either on the threads on the tank or the inside of the lock ring, refit it and use the wood and lump hammer to tap it tight. Reconnect the hoses (they're all different sizes so no mistakes can be made) and test by trying to start the car.

If all is good, refit the access plate with its 4 screws, engage the tongues on the underside of the floor panel and slide it backwards to get it in the correct place then lift the flaps on the front end of it and refit the 3 nuts. Put the back seats back how you normally have them and job done.

You will be able to hear the pump when feeding it with a slave battery, it's not loud but a low pitched hum/buzz.
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Old Oct 26th, 2021, 12:35   #5
Steve 940
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Many thanks for that info Dave, most appreciated.

Wow the prices at Rockauto seem good, no doubt shipping and the damn taxes will offset this.

Yes, I am very cautious about this, so will perhaps try listening at tank filler neck again with someone else turning key, might try a bit of rubber hose just into tank.

Cheers
Steve
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Old Oct 26th, 2021, 12:54   #6
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Originally Posted by Steve 940 View Post
Many thanks for that info Dave, most appreciated.

Wow the prices at Rockauto seem good, no doubt shipping and the damn taxes will offset this.

Yes, I am very cautious about this, so will perhaps try listening at tank filler neck again with someone else turning key, might try a bit of rubber hose just into tank.

Cheers
Steve
Even with S&H, currency conversion and Import Duty, it's still cheaper than buying from the UK and often quicker too! If you buy from Rock Auto, use one of the services that pays the Customs for you - more expensive to start with but your bits don't get stuck at Customs while they send you a card to pay the Import Duty online which the Royal Mail charge £8 for collecting and passing to HMRC!

If you use a bit of garden hose to listen in the tank, make sure it's clean in and out before inserting it into the tank! Also you won't need a volunteer, you'll be able to hear it that way with the engine running.
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Old Oct 26th, 2021, 13:28   #7
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That's even better news, everything I've read up on this mentions doing this and then turning key to position 1/2.
Just done as suggested, bit of hose with a funnel, and can't really hear anything like a pump running, very feint noise, but that I think is the sound of the main pump.
Right, time to start accumulating various parts.
Cheers
Steve
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Old Nov 4th, 2021, 14:58   #8
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Hi,

Right, have been putting this off too long, main fuel pump still very noisy, and now think it's point of no return to pull the in tank pump/ sender unit.

Had seen a possible other cause was fuel pressure regulator, haven't got a pressure tester, but as some on US forums had posted, a quick check was to pull the vacuum line to see if any petrol or fumes, dry as a bone and no smell of fuel, bugger!!

Contacted FRF for price for genuine in tank pump and filter sock, gasket and locking ring - emailed me back, and almost fell off my chair at north of £470+. ......

As Dave had suggested earlier in the post, Airtex one on order from Rock Auto, this along with filter sock + Bosch main pump as well including carriage £115, should be here next week🤞 As main pump been straining, it's bound to go soon.

How good a deal this will be, remains to be seen, knowing my luck I've probably ordered the wrong pumps.

I want to minimise risk of getting into the job and not having a small item needed, so would like some suggestions on additional parts to get -:

1. Seen mentions that hoses on the top of tank are differing sizes, would like to get stainless hose clamps to replace all that are on there, what sizes will I need please?
2. Possible the length of hose from in tank pump to tank outlet may have a split, what size fuel hose is this? I realise it needs to be R10 rated for submersion.
3. Obviously will pull negative lead from battery before doing anything, does this mess up anything else, ECU etc, standard radio I have the code for I think, but have a new head unit ready to go in when I get a moment.

I think with Daves advice earlier in post I should be able to sort this issue, any other pointers anyone may have would be much appreciated.

Cheers
Steve
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Old Nov 4th, 2021, 17:11   #9
Laird Scooby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve 940 View Post
Hi,

Right, have been putting this off too long, main fuel pump still very noisy, and now think it's point of no return to pull the in tank pump/ sender unit.

Had seen a possible other cause was fuel pressure regulator, haven't got a pressure tester, but as some on US forums had posted, a quick check was to pull the vacuum line to see if any petrol or fumes, dry as a bone and no smell of fuel, bugger!!

Contacted FRF for price for genuine in tank pump and filter sock, gasket and locking ring - emailed me back, and almost fell off my chair at north of £470+. ......

As Dave had suggested earlier in the post, Airtex one on order from Rock Auto, this along with filter sock + Bosch main pump as well including carriage £115, should be here next week🤞 As main pump been straining, it's bound to go soon.

How good a deal this will be, remains to be seen, knowing my luck I've probably ordered the wrong pumps.

I want to minimise risk of getting into the job and not having a small item needed, so would like some suggestions on additional parts to get -:

1. Seen mentions that hoses on the top of tank are differing sizes, would like to get stainless hose clamps to replace all that are on there, what sizes will I need please?
2. Possible the length of hose from in tank pump to tank outlet may have a split, what size fuel hose is this? I realise it needs to be R10 rated for submersion.
3. Obviously will pull negative lead from battery before doing anything, does this mess up anything else, ECU etc, standard radio I have the code for I think, but have a new head unit ready to go in when I get a moment.

I think with Daves advice earlier in post I should be able to sort this issue, any other pointers anyone may have would be much appreciated.

Cheers
Steve
1. Buy yourself a selection pack of stainless fuel hose clips Steve, they';re always useful to have and should ensure you have the right size. I don't know about others but the last thing i do when doing a job like this is measure the sizes unless necessary so sadly can't help on that.

2. The Aitex in-tank pump comes with a link-hose and new clips - the USA have used E10 (and even E15 in some states) so should be compatible.

3. The negative (-ve)/earth battery connection doesn't need to be touched. Just pull fuses 1, 11 & 13 in that order before you start and refit in the reverse order when you finish. Preserves your clock and radio memories and saves a lot of faffing about by accidentally triggering the central locking!



Not included ^^^^^ with the Airtex instructions for the in-tank pump but emailed to me direct from Airtex when i queried Rock Auto, the terminal layout on the in-tank pump. Same as standard, i was just being fussy about double-checking.

As long as the in-line pump you ordered is suitable for cars needing 2 pumps (in-tank and in-line) you should be ok with the other one - Airtex also do one considerably cheaper than the Bosch version.
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Old Nov 4th, 2021, 17:43   #10
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That's fantastic Dave, should be really helpful.

Great tip about pulling fuses, hadn't even thought of that as a possible, seems Haynes have 'disconnect battery' before virtually any job these days, but bearing in mind working on fuel tank I wasn't going to risk it!!

Think I'll also hotglue some thin rubber around my pliers, don't need them to slip on hoseclip and spark, unlikely I suppose, but don't really fancy being BBQ'd.

Will get seats up and measure hoses through the access panel so new clips are on hand. Also will be able to see the condition of hoses, if any might need replacing then I can get hose and joiners as required.

Great to hear the Airtex ships with hose as well, will hopefully be a simple swop.

Found a supposedly genuine tank outlet gasket on eBay, but coming from Lithuania apparently so could be a while.

Yes, the Bosch one was more expensive, but overall looks as though both will come under the price of Bosch pump from UK suppliers so thought I might as well. Probably get HMRC hitting me for taxes, but hey ho😀

Oh, fire extinguisher also ordered !!! 😀

Cheers
Steve
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