General: 164: 164 Engine swap

[Verstappen]

Hi there,

I´m looking for information about a engine swap in a Vovlo 164E Autom. from 1972.

I´d like to replace the old, heavy and thirsty B30E-engine with the modern straight six B6304F. Still with automatic gearbox

Has anyone done this before? I just saw some pics, so it fits, but what kind of sudpension/steering is to be fitted in?

Thanxalot for any suggestion/advice.

Oo ( / ) oO

[fritzing]

Just a few bits and pieces that I've heard about the car on the image you included:
- Steering and suspension is standard 164
- The power steering pump is from the 960
- you should try to get ahold of an engine from 960 -94 or up because they have more efficient "cooling channels"
- Best to get the complete engine / transmission incl all electronics from the same car (960 from 94 isn't that expensive)

Some more pictures of the car (incl a brief information about the conversion) can be found at:
http://www.ele.tut.fi/~haka/Meetings...es/image32.htm

The Swedish information translates:
Transmission: Standard AW 30-43 gearbox. Stock 164 cross member. Rubber cushion from B20 (Volvo 140). Propeller shaft from 164, shortened 22 cm. Custom made cooling lines to the radiator from copper.

Engine: B6304S from 960 -94. Homemade engine fixings with 164 rubber cushions. Intake manifold shortened 3,5 cm to fit the engine compartment, cooling tube cut in 4 places to fit. Aux devices stripped: AC, ABS, ECC, Cruise control and the cable harness only contains the necessary parts. Expansion tank from 740, 3 row radiator custom made, Fan shroud from 850 (shortened). Air cleaner replaced with an open filter from K&N. Custom made exhaust system (2,5"). Lamdba placed after the 2-1 junction.

My apologies for any bad translations.

[Verstappen]

Hi Fritzing

thanxalot for the quick reply.

Quite comprehensive info. I´ve found your link to this foto collection earlyer and wasn´t "creative" enough to translate the short description in the window. thank you for the translation.

can you give me links to english speaking volvo communities/cubs/garages in sweden? I think, in sweden is this conversion quite more "common".I´ve just found this link on the swedish volvo 164 club linkpage but had no response from the 165 enthusiast.(last update is from 2003)

http://hem.bredband.net/themar/165/165.htm


Ì´d love to get this engine into the 164 bay and would be glad about further info.

Oo ( / ) oO

[fritzing]

Sorry for the delay, but my daughter was born on the 28th... :-)

You might give http://164.forum.bilia.se/ a try. I don't think that this is a common swap even in Sweden (I only know of this car). I had some thoughts in this direction (but to use a S80 T6 engine with a M90H manual gearbox), but never got around to it. Now I aim to convert to a M410 (4+1 manual).

Best of luck!

[Mike_Brace]

Originally Posted by Verstappen

Hi there,

I´m looking for information about a engine swap in a Vovlo 164E Autom. from 1972.

I´d like to replace the old, heavy and thirsty B30E-engine with the modern straight six B6304F. Still with automatic gearbox

Has anyone done this before? I just saw some pics, so it fits, but what kind of sudpension/steering is to be fitted in?

Thanxalot for any suggestion/advice.

Oo ( / ) oO

If thirst is the issue surely it would be cheaper and a lot easier to go for lpg conversion. Fuel consumption wil be similair but at half the price. The power and economy of the car can be improved with a good free flowing exhaust:



As regards weight there is not a great difference in weight between the two and if its a case that handling is the issue this again can be easily improved.

Mike

[Verstappen]

hi folks,

wasn´t around for a while...

just don´t know, how to keep my fine 164E on the (mostly daily) road. the tranny (BW35) is totaly worn out and at first I wanted to replace it by an AW71L. some guys did so in 164 and 1800ES, but it´s hard to find all parts of the puzzle...and when it´s done, the engine with ~350.000km won´t be really reliable enough for this "investment". the conversion to manual gearbox is much more complicated due to pedalerie works and tunnel welding.

the engine-swap to B6304 just seemed to be the logical modernisation of my old school cruiser. still straight six, more power by same consumption and better emissions due to catalytic converter. the conversion to (lpg-)gas might be a option later on.

A complete running 960 as a donating car comes nearly the same price as renewing the BW35 or the swap to AW71L. the rest is homework....

thanx for further suggestions

Oo ( / ) oO

[john h]

If you find a manual 164 donor car, the conversion from auto to manual is easy - a bolt-on job - because the bodyshell is made with all the necessary fittings for both auto and manual.

Very much easier than swapping in a later engine, transmission, electronics etc.

If you are determined to swap the engine for light weight and ecomony, a 240 2.3 mechanical injection + manual box would be more productive, or a 2.3 turbo if you want performance.

Cheers

[Pigeon]

I think the OP seems to have similar attitudes to me on both of those matters, though... I love the auto in my 164, never thought I would, but now I've got it it's great. It suits the relaxing cruisy nature of the car really well, and it's an absolute godsend in traffic jams, which living in Bedford I see a lot of. To fit a manual would totally alter the character of the car, and unless I moved to somewhere less afflicted by idiot councils deliberately causing congestion (which is not easy these days), give me a left leg noticeably bigger than the right. The AW71L is a much more appealing swap; the main difficulty is getting hold of a spare bellhousing to mess about with.

And engine-wise the swaps you propose are both four-pots. The main reason I wanted a 164 in the first place is for the straight six. Cylinders Should Come In Banks Of Six. So the whiteblock six is about the only possible candidate for a swap.

I reckon that to transplant the modern six and transmission as a lump is considerably easier than transplanting either unit on its own as there's no need to get involved with the connection of the engine to the transmission. I would expect the awkward bits to be limited to (1) modifying the front section of the propshaft to mate with the new gearbox - not difficult if you get a modern front section and get a propshaft specialist to cut, join and balance the bits - and (2) a bit of simple metalbashing to ensure compatibility of the mounts, using some suitably thick steel, a drill, a hacksaw, a strong vice, and a big lump hammer.

Electrically the "computerised" nature of the modern engine is no big deal. I've converted an Amazon to D-Jet and that was not difficult. Basically the operation consists of drawing a metaphorical line around the injection electronics with nothing crossing the line except the switched +12V feed, taking everything inside the line out of the old car, putting it in the new car, and connecting a switched +12V feed. Simplifying a little but not much. The most awkward part of the operation was plumbing in the fuel return line that the injection system needs.

[john h]

If it has to be an auto, I can see the point. Personally, I prefer manual , having owned several autos and manuals, classic and modern. I'm lucky that I don't do much driving in very heavy traffic.

The old auto boxes certainly are inefficient. A converted a previous 164E from auto to manual and, subjectively, it felt like it had gained 30-40% more power.

Does it have to be a Volvo engine? I can't speak from any personal experience but there are quite a lot of cylinder head and gasket problems on the forums with the whiteblock six.

[Clan]

the T5 would make a better mod , lighter , shorter , more plentiful and more power ...