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Liqui Moly Diesel Purge Gone Wrong - Now barely starting

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Old Apr 18th, 2021, 01:29   #11
ca2n
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No success yet.

Took the car out today to the shops. The engine cut out three times in the span of approximately 3 minutes/300 yards. Interestingly, no cut outs in the 2-mile journey after.

All cut outs occurred at low revs/load, either on engine overrun or just barely accelerating from standstill, where the engine had well reached its operating temperature. The engine would fire again first time, every time, after cycling the ignition, which on a Geartronic means stopping and putting the gear selector into P. There were no cut-outs while the engine was warming up.

A very similar issue was detailed in this post and was remedied (thus far) by fitting a replacement fuel pressure sensor.

VIDA scan revealed ECM-2505 and ECM-2503, both pointing to a damaged fuel pressure sensor as a possible source of the DTC being triggered; however, there are other potential causes as well.

Of the two DTCs, I suppose ECM-2503 is the key DTC to pay attention to as fuel is cut off when it is triggered (ECM-2505 only 'reduces' fuel).

From VIDA:
Quote:
Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) ECM-2503 is stored if the fuel pressure is too low in relation to the signal transmitted to the fuel pressure valve.
Quote:
Possible source
  • The car has been driven until the tank is empty
  • Air in the fuel
  • Blockage or leakage in the fuel supply
  • Blocked fuel filter
  • Damaged fuel pressure sensor
  • Faulty pressure safety valve
  • Damaged fuel pressure control valve
  • Damaged fuel pump
It's probably time to start replacing parts now...

In the meantime, if anybody has any insight on the below, I would appreciate the advice:
  • On VIDA, a live read of the "current through fuel pressure regulator valve" can be obtained. Can anybody point out to where this pressure regulator valve is? Is it the one on the HP pump? I have yet to look on VIDA, but are there nominal/reference values for it?
  • Where are these so-called pressure control and/or safety valves? Are they within the HP pump assembly itself? Or are they external to it?
  • Any thoughts on why it only happens (so far) once the engine has well reached its operating temperature and not on warm-up?
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Last edited by ca2n; Apr 18th, 2021 at 01:31.
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Old Apr 18th, 2021, 04:22   #12
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The fuel pressure regulator is bolted to the high pressure pump and has an electrical plug on it. They can be tricky to diagnose, but if they aren't working correctly they will cause fuel pressure deviations resulting in running issues. FPR's can fail in two ways. Either they won't allow enough fuel to cope with the need or demand, or they will allow excessive fuel to pass to the rail. Either way can cause running issues, including misfires and cutting out.

The cutting out symptom is normally as a result of a low pressure condition caused by a stuck or partially blocked FPR (when the FPR is the faulty component). You can unplug the FPR to see if the engine behaves any differently, but don't let it run for too long if it sounds like a machine gun. Of course the fault could also lie within the pump itself, but the FPR is quicker to check than the pump. You could try removing the FPR and cleaning it in something like an ultrasonic bath using a sensitive metals cleaning solution, or swap one out from a known working engine to see if it cures it.

Codes 2505 and 2503 don't necessarily indicate that your fuel pressure sensor is damaged. The codes have been stored because the fuel pressure has dropped below the parameters expected at a specific engine operating condition, perhaps at the point the engine cuts out. These codes sound like symptoms of another problem and not the cause. I'd try the FPR on the pump first and go from there. Volvo call it a fuel control valve for reference.
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Old Apr 18th, 2021, 08:56   #13
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Have you checked your air filter? A clogged or partially clogged air filter can cause a myriad of problems
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Old Apr 20th, 2021, 01:08   #14
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Today I managed to replicate the problem with VIDA connected.

As VIDA allows a higher data sampling rate from the sensors (compared to my ELM327 + Torque Pro setup), I thought it might give better insight.

As before, the engine would cut out seemingly randomly, but only once it had well reached operating temperature and only at low revs.

Below is the data from the run. The engine cut out whilst I was doing a 3-point turn (well, it's a P2, so more a 7-point turn ). Two stutters and the engine cut off. The FPR current shoots up immediately after ignition is cut, and stays that way until the key is cycled from Pos 0 to Pos II. As with previous occurrences, starting always 1st time with the key.



EDIT: Just noticed how the FPR current dropped "one grid line" during the engine stutter and cut out and increased again after the engine started again. FPR current would only reduce that much if engine revs are increased (see spike in fuel pressure and revs just before cut out). Hmmm...

Zooming in, you can get a better view of the (indicated) fuel pressure drop during the stutter and engine cut out and how the fuel pressure drops before the FPR current rise.



Conversely, if the ignition is killed with the key, the fuel pressure drops after the FPR current rise. This is the same data zoomed in towards the end.



If there are any D5244T owners who don't mind sharing what their sensors report in similar conditions, it would be interesting to compare.

And, no rush for this, as this has just got my attention:

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


What are the chances?? Easy job, this?
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Last edited by ca2n; Apr 20th, 2021 at 01:17. Reason: Added more information
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Old Apr 20th, 2021, 17:16   #15
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Looks like a pin hole in the thermostat housing?

A thermostat is easy to replace on the euro 3.
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Old Apr 20th, 2021, 22:16   #16
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It will be a while before I could get data on mine.
The FPR does sound suspect though so perhaps check Vida Information >Specifications Electrical for the available data to compare.

Re the thermostat, looks like it's been separated in the past and the seal has been breached. Best to replace the whole unit but genuine Volvo is £100 ish if not more.

I have a brand new Wahler Thermostat, housing and coolant temperature sensor unit you could have for £75 delivered.
Wahler make the genuine one and it's identical apart from "Volvo" is ground off the housing and it's in a Wahler box.
Still has the Volvo part number stamped on the housing and the coolant temperature sensor and comes with a new gasket.

I bought it a while ago but they're just too damn reliable so never needed to fit it.
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Old Apr 21st, 2021, 00:33   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev0607 View Post
Looks like a pin hole in the thermostat housing?

A thermostat is easy to replace on the euro 3.
It does, yeah. It seems that access to the bottom bolt of the thermostat housing is a bit tight and involves moving the power steering components, aux belt, etc. out of the way, something I don't have a problem with; it's the putting things back together that gets me nervous!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheshired5 View Post
The FPR does sound suspect though so perhaps check Vida Information >Specifications Electrical for the available data to compare.
It seems there is a resistance measurement that can be made; should be around 3 ohms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheshired5 View Post
I have a brand new Wahler Thermostat, housing and coolant temperature sensor unit you could have for £75 delivered.
My local Volvo dealership wanted £104 for it and were happy to have it ready for me sometime in May. I followed a link you posted on another thread and was just about to purchase it. I'm happy to take you up on your offer. PM incoming!
On another note, what do you guys think about using a primer bulb on the inlet line to the HP pump to prime it, as opposed to pulling vacuum on the return line. Something like this, perhaps with some clear tubing:

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Old Apr 21st, 2021, 00:53   #18
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I prefer vacuuming.
Those cheap eBay/Amazon kits usually come with a jar which will catch the drips until you pull through a good solid stream of fuel.
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Old Apr 21st, 2021, 00:54   #19
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The FPR could test ok with the resistance check, but it won't tell you if there's a blockage or mechanical wear within the regulator. I've fitted hand primer pumps to a few engines over the years, mostly diesel Fords as they can be awkward to start after changing the fuel filter. They should be fitted to more engines in my opinion, as when needed their convenience can be a great time saver. You can place it on the supply line to the HP pump no problem.
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Old Apr 21st, 2021, 01:51   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheshired5 View Post
I prefer vacuuming.
Those cheap eBay/Amazon kits usually come with a jar which will catch the drips until you pull through a good solid stream of fuel.
I have a very similar one to that which I used previously. The container fills up quickly though. And since it's pulling on the common return line, the diesel (and/or air) could be from the injectors or the HP pump, if I understand correctly. That being said, when I was priming with the diesel purge, it didn't take much effort from the vacuum pump to get the diesel purge introduced into the inline filter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancake View Post
The FPR could test ok with the resistance check, but it won't tell you if there's a blockage or mechanical wear within the regulator.
I can't disagree. Especially considering that the (potential) fault only happens when the FPR seemingly gets warm. Lower current, higher resistance?
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