Seriously?

[Othen]

This is another one to test the validity of the price guide:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144203955...53.m1438.l2649

... a 1992 estate with (apparently) just under 100,000 miles. I get a little bit irritated when people describe motor cars (or bikes) as classics when they aren't even 30 years old yet, but that is just a personal thing.

The seller says this motor car has been well cared for and maintained throughout its life, but the MoT history would seem to suggest otherwise. It looks like the owner has presented it for the test each year with no preparation, and after its annual fail he/she has just fixed the minimum to run it on for another year. I'm wondering whether the mileage is genuine - it is possible that this 30 (nearly) year old has done 3,000 miles/year throughout its life, but there might also be other explanations for the very low recorded mileage.

So, what will this go for when the auction ends (tomorrow)? I'd say it is right in the heart of the middling cars range - so £2,200. I think that is pretty healthy for a 30 year old motor car - if it was a 1990s Mondeo estate it would be worth less than a grand (like this one:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393583704...97.m4902.l9144 ).

:-)

[Moomoo]

And the wrong coloured seats, just being picky!😐

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Moomoo

And the wrong coloured seats, just being picky!😐

Quite a few other trim "anomalies" too, mostly missing trim but it's generally a scruffy old beast that could like nice with a lot of tinkering.

I like the way Alan has juxtaposed it with a 1999 Mondeo 2.5 Ghia X auto, itself a classic in its own right because of rarity value. Although the Mondeo has its faults (NSR wheelarch to start with) on the whole, it looks a more complete car.

That also begs the question as to why this particular Volvo is a classic rather than just a scruffy old Volvo. The divide between being classic or not is larger with this one and the 240 SE was a run-out model to sell off the bodyshells quickly and cheaply. That makes it less desirable MIHO than say a 240 GL with similar equipment, despite the mileage being relatively low on this one.

I'd hazard a guess it was bought by someone living in London (that's where it's for sale now) and used mainly for short distance but long duration journeys so has potentially sat in traffic much of its life.

Ignoring the 8 or so years before it hits the 40 year Historic threshold, i think it will be a long time before this particular Volvo is a classic and as such, should only reach "project" money levels, i'd make a guess at £12-1500 as there is a lot of silly stuff that needs putting right just to get it looking complete, never mind the unseen stuff.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Quite a few other trim "anomalies" too, mostly missing trim but it's generally a scruffy old beast that could like nice with a lot of tinkering.

I like the way Alan has juxtaposed it with a 1999 Mondeo 2.5 Ghia X auto, itself a classic in its own right because of rarity value. Although the Mondeo has its faults (NSR wheelarch to start with) on the whole, it looks a more complete car.

That also begs the question as to why this particular Volvo is a classic rather than just a scruffy old Volvo. The divide between being classic or not is larger with this one and the 240 SE was a run-out model to sell off the bodyshells quickly and cheaply. That makes it less desirable MIHO than say a 240 GL with similar equipment, despite the mileage being relatively low on this one.

I'd hazard a guess it was bought by someone living in London (that's where it's for sale now) and used mainly for short distance but long duration journeys so has potentially sat in traffic much of its life.

Ignoring the 8 or so years before it hits the 40 year Historic threshold, i think it will be a long time before this particular Volvo is a classic and as such, should only reach "project" money levels, i'd make a guess at £12-1500 as there is a lot of silly stuff that needs putting right just to get it looking complete, never mind the unseen stuff.

That is an interesting discussion about scruffy old car vs classic Dave, particularly vis-à-vis the Ford (I didn't know that model might be considered a classic, I just like Mondeos having bought one new about 20 years ago).

If I was in the market for a 30ish year old car (so nowhere near qualified as an historic vehicle, but old enough to have a few maintenance and parts supply issues) then I'd be buying that V6 Mondeo long before I considered the red 240 SE.

You may be right about the Volvo having been a city car, and so having spent a lot of time with the engine making exhaust fumes but not much else. The Ford has a plausible background story.

I'm still seeing the 240 SE as just a scruffy old car rather than a classic, so maybe you are right about its value being closer to £1,500. By the same measure I'm not seeing this one (that you may remember Andrew, you and I discussed a week or so ago) being worth much more (and certainly not £3,500):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274939918...8AAOSwM1RhOdn2

:-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

That is an interesting discussion about scruffy old car vs classic Dave, particularly vis-à-vis the Ford (I didn't know that model might be considered a classic, I just like Mondeos having bought one new about 20 years ago).

If I was in the market for a 30ish year old car (so nowhere near qualified as an historic vehicle, but old enough to have a few maintenance and parts supply issues) then I'd be buying that V6 Mondeo long before I considered the red 240 SE.

You may be right about the Volvo having been a city car, and so having spent a lot of time with the engine making exhaust fumes but not much else. The Ford has a plausible background story.

I'm still seeing the 240 SE as just a scruffy old car rather than a classic, so maybe you are right about its value being closer to £1,500. By the same measure I'm not seeing this one (that you may remember Andrew, you and I discussed a week or so ago) being worth much more (and certainly not £3,500):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274939918...8AAOSwM1RhOdn2

:-)

I'd also buy the Mondeo over the Volvo if i was looking for an estate and had ~£1k to spend, it will certainly appreciate in value faster than that particular Volvo! It will also carry the "Blue Oval Tax" when it does start appreciating too which will bump the value up accordingly.

That 240GLT is interesting, especially as it has LPG and adjustable air-springs on the back for load carrying. Looks to have spent a lot of time parked with the NSR quarter facing south, the pain and rear light cluster are both faded on that part. Not insurmountable, a few hours with T-Cut or similar followed by a good polish and wax, new rear clusters and should smarten it up considerably. That said it's not generally untidy (like the 240SE) and IMHO represents better value for money at £3500 than the SE at ~£1200 as i think the bidding is now.
By the sellers admission, the GLT is a rolling resto and has a few minor bits in need of TLC, however they don't generally detract from the overall presentation of a pretty tidy car. Somewhat similar to the RB when you first got it, a few bits in need of TLC but didn't detract from a nice presentable machine.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I'd also buy the Mondeo over the Volvo if i was looking for an estate and had ~£1k to spend, it will certainly appreciate in value faster than that particular Volvo! It will also carry the "Blue Oval Tax" when it does start appreciating too which will bump the value up accordingly.

That 240GLT is interesting, especially as it has LPG and adjustable air-springs on the back for load carrying. Looks to have spent a lot of time parked with the NSR quarter facing south, the pain and rear light cluster are both faded on that part. Not insurmountable, a few hours with T-Cut or similar followed by a good polish and wax, new rear clusters and should smarten it up considerably. That said it's not generally untidy (like the 240SE) and IMHO represents better value for money at £3500 than the SE at ~£1200 as i think the bidding is now.
By the sellers admission, the GLT is a rolling resto and has a few minor bits in need of TLC, however they don't generally detract from the overall presentation of a pretty tidy car. Somewhat similar to the RB when you first got it, a few bits in need of TLC but didn't detract from a nice presentable machine.

...if I could think of any plausible reason to run a fourth car I'd probably buy that V6 Mondeo Dave (well, offer the chap £600 in folding money and start walking away...). It looks nice and I generally like Fords. I'm not convinced it is going to appreciate like a V6 Capri, but it might go up enough to provide free motoring over the next decade. It even has a bit of MoT left and fixing that wheel arch wouldn't take long :-)

I'm yet to be convinced that the GLT is good (or even reasonable) value at £3,500. I see the point about it being a good car underneath and would just need a bit of tidying, but in my mind that still makes it a £2,000 car (the RB was about 2 grand - the seller started off at £2750 I think, but folding money always leads to a great deal).

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

...if I could think of any plausible reason to run a fourth car I'd probably buy that V6 Mondeo Dave (well, offer the chap £600 in folding money and start walking away...). It looks nice and I generally like Fords. I'm not convinced it is going to appreciate like a V6 Capri, but it might go up enough to provide free motoring over the next decade. It even has a bit of MoT left and fixing that wheel arch wouldn't take long :-)

I'm yet to be convinced that the GLT is good (or even reasonable) value at £3,500. I see the point about it being a good car underneath and would just need a bit of tidying, but in my mind that still makes it a £2,000 car (the RB was about 2 grand - the seller started off at £2750 I think, but folding money always leads to a great deal).

Any plausible reason Alan? How about Japanese reliability? Cavernous load deck with the seats down (not quite as good as a 7/9xx Volvo but fairly close). Modern enough to have the fuel efficient electrickery but not so modern they're going to be a problem with spurious sensor readings and/or failures. Comfortable long distance cruiser, even in the back. Prices are just beginning to go up (a few years back it would have been £350, NOT £850) so a more or less guaranteed return on your money if/when you come to sell, if not a healthy profit.

That's a few plausible reasons!

PS the Japanese bit - a very close relative of the Mazda Xedos 6 V6 with the larger 2.5 engine, the Xedos was available with 2.0 or 2.5 V6 units. It's auto rather than manual so won't need to go on a body jig to have the clutch changed! Rear suspension bushes can wear badly causing a seasick feeling on the back end but replacement is fairly straightforward.

Other than that they're a fairly straightforward car to own with mostly just routine servicing to give a long life.
On some models, the windscreen wash and tailgate wash use the same pump motor, cleverly arranged to run in opposite directions depending which screen you want to wash. Can be a pain to fix if the control circuitry plays up though. Usually reliable if both washes are used regularly though.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Any plausible reason Alan? How about Japanese reliability? Cavernous load deck with the seats down (not quite as good as a 7/9xx Volvo but fairly close). Modern enough to have the fuel efficient electrickery but not so modern they're going to be a problem with spurious sensor readings and/or failures. Comfortable long distance cruiser, even in the back. Prices are just beginning to go up (a few years back it would have been £350, NOT £850) so a more or less guaranteed return on your money if/when you come to sell, if not a healthy profit.

Your logic is very good Dave, those are very good reasons. If I was to have only one car and had just a grand to spend I'd buy that nice Mondeo V6 and it would sort of serve the functions of the RB and my Skoda Superb diesel estate. My problem is, nice car as it may be, I already have three others.

The Skoda does all of the above, but probably better: it is cavernous, an excellent towing car, does 50 MPG and only costs £30/year to tax. The RB on the other hand... well, you know about the RB... in my opinion it is the perfect classic car.

I did enjoy my Mondeo (I must have bought it new in about 2002 and kept it 2 years before the Army moved me to a different continent).

:-)

PS. As matter of interest Dave, what do you think of this motor car (I'm not in the market for a Rover 827, I'm just curious):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174945072559

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

PS. As matter of interest Dave, what do you think of this motor car (I'm not in the market for a Rover 827, I'm just curious):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174945072559

I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole unless you're prepared to do a lot of work to it!

Firstly, the coolant is the wrong colour indicating some idiot has put OAT coolant in it. Chances are it wasn't completely flushed out of EG coolant and now has silicone gel inside the heads, water pump and throttle body.

Second, i'm not a betting man as you know Alan but i'd happily lay bets the rear pads need to come out and be refitted properly and also that the brake fluid needs flushing/renewing.

Third, it's not been near an MoT station/test since 23/12/2010 so has potentially been off the road since January 2012, nearly 10 years!

Fourth, it's Euro2 compliant, not Euro1 on emissions and the KV6 was a Rover engine (pushed into service without testing thanks to BMWs aggressive takeover) and the C27 as fitted produces (on paper) 169bhp, not 127bhp as stated in the listing.

Fifth, the fuel filler neck needs to come off ASAP and be derusted (preferably electrolytically to preserve integrity) then treated against rust, primed, painted and refitted, not as easy as it sounds.

Sixth, you'll need the correct fuel pump for it, that Pierburg thing he mentions won't work. Along similar lines, the non-start due to no fuel pump action is almost certainly the PGM-Fi Main Relay which will need resoldering or renewal, an easy fix if you can solder. Ditto on the fusebox which will cause many things to operate erattically.

In terms of mileage it's nearly due a timing belt, tensioner (including new spring) and water pump, in time terms seriously overdue. There will doubtless be many recommissioning problems encountered as well, if you really were looking for an 827 Sterling i'd suggest a saloon instead as the bodyshell is much stiffer than the Fastback resulting in better handling, ride and overall longevity.

Being a Sterling, this one is considered a classic from the insurance point of view. Given how long it's been stood idle, i'd suggest it's probably a better spares mule than resto candidate, you'd have to be brave and want it a lot, especially in that colour.

Sorry if that's a bit long but you did ask what i thought!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole unless you're prepared to do a lot of work to it!

Firstly, the coolant is the wrong colour indicating some idiot has put OAT coolant in it. Chances are it wasn't completely flushed out of EG coolant and now has silicone gel inside the heads, water pump and throttle body.

Second, i'm not a betting man as you know Alan but i'd happily lay bets the rear pads need to come out and be refitted properly and also that the brake fluid needs flushing/renewing.

Third, it's not been near an MoT station/test since 23/12/2010 so has potentially been off the road since January 2012, nearly 10 years!

Fourth, it's Euro2 compliant, not Euro1 on emissions and the KV6 was a Rover engine (pushed into service without testing thanks to BMWs aggressive takeover) and the C27 as fitted produces (on paper) 169bhp, not 127bhp as stated in the listing.

Fifth, the fuel filler neck needs to come off ASAP and be derusted (preferably electrolytically to preserve integrity) then treated against rust, primed, painted and refitted, not as easy as it sounds.

Sixth, you'll need the correct fuel pump for it, that Pierburg thing he mentions won't work. Along similar lines, the non-start due to no fuel pump action is almost certainly the PGM-Fi Main Relay which will need resoldering or renewal, an easy fix if you can solder. Ditto on the fusebox which will cause many things to operate erattically.

In terms of mileage it's nearly due a timing belt, tensioner (including new spring) and water pump, in time terms seriously overdue. There will doubtless be many recommissioning problems encountered as well, if you really were looking for an 827 Sterling i'd suggest a saloon instead as the bodyshell is much stiffer than the Fastback resulting in better handling, ride and overall longevity.

Being a Sterling, this one is considered a classic from the insurance point of view. Given how long it's been stood idle, i'd suggest it's probably a better spares mule than resto candidate, you'd have to be brave and want it a lot, especially in that colour.

Sorry if that's a bit long but you did ask what i thought!

Thank you for that Dave - I was curious because I'd seen one on the Flipping Bangers TV programme some time ago. That one looks to be more trouble that it might be worth (even if it is cheap).

Alan