Seriously?

[Laird Scooby]

Great Aunt Maud has a lot to answer for! When the bidding starts slowly and then suddenly jumps like that it's very worrying and is usually indicative of shill bidding in particular as you put it, an insurance bid.

If ebay didn't charge so much to add a reserve to the listing, more people would use that facility and the buyers would then have a more realistic view of what they're up against.

If the fuel injection has only been fitted to improve the driving experience and give the car a modern edge then i'm all for it although i think i would have chosen a slightly different system.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Great Aunt Maud has a lot to answer for! When the bidding starts slowly and then suddenly jumps like that it's very worrying and is usually indicative of shill bidding in particular as you put it, an insurance bid.

If ebay didn't charge so much to add a reserve to the listing, more people would use that facility and the buyers would then have a more realistic view of what they're up against.

If the fuel injection has only been fitted to improve the driving experience and give the car a modern edge then i'm all for it although i think i would have chosen a slightly different system.

I hadn't realised eBay charged to add a reserve price Dave, but now you mention it that makes great sense, and perhaps explains why we see shill bidding elsewhere (like the red estate car from yesterday).

When it comes to car values one has to be mindful of the market. I can't help thinking the sort of person that is looking for a 40 year old Volvo 244 DL would rather have a more or less standard one (that is why he wants a car like that) than a boy racer with FI, funny wheels and asymmetric low-profile tyres. There might be a market for sleeper cars - but I'm not sure the 244 DL would be the right model for it.

Just my thoughts - we'll see what the market thinks on Friday :-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I hadn't realised eBay charged to add a reserve price Dave, but now you mention it that makes great sense, and perhaps explains why we see shill bidding elsewhere (like the red estate car from yesterday).

When it comes to car values one has to be mindful of the market. I can't help thinking the sort of person that is looking for a 40 year old Volvo 244 DL would rather have a more or less standard one (that is why he wants a car like that) than a boy racer with FI, funny wheels and asymmetric low-profile tyres. There might be a market for sleeper cars - but I'm not sure the 244 DL would be the right model for it.

Just my thoughts - we'll see what the market thinks on Friday :-)

They do indeed charge fees for adding a reserve Alan, i'm not sure if it's a straight percentage or on a sliding scale but on the few occasions i've used a "real" auction to sell a car, i've been asked if i would like to put a reserve on it and always been advised it's free to do that.

Things may have changed as it's a long time (~15-17 years) since i last sold a car at auction (bright green Fiat Panda with a years MoT, struggled to the reserve of £40 and they kindly waived their commission on that) but a reserve actually helps the auctioneer, if he gets no bids even approaching the reserve then he can simply pass it over and move on to the next, more profitable lot/sale.

As for aftermarket EFi, there are many systems that retain the original look and carb of the engine and simply add one or as many injectors as there are cylinders with a discrete ECU for fuel and ignition management.
A single injector would be fitted on or near the throttle body and is known as TBI or Throttle Body Injection. Multiple injectors would be mounted in the inlet manifold in the tracts near to the inlet port.
Usually a timing trigger is needed for the injectors which can serve as a base line for the ignition too then a sensor (usually Hall Effect) is added to the distributor to fire the ECUs coil output to provide the sparks.

The benefit of this is it preserves the original appearance for the most part while giving the modern benefits of electronic ignition and fuel injection. If you've ever watched Car SOS, they often fit this kind of system to modernise the driving experience, most recent one i've seen was on a Hillman Imp of all things but in the past, they've also fitted it to a Triumph Herald among others.

https://www.classicfuelinjection.co....cle-make-model

That site gives a lot of information about their kits, what is in them and so on. Here's a photo i found of a Triumph Stag with OE Strombergs running their EFI :



As you can see, there are a few extra bits but at first glance, it's a standard looking Stag V8 engine.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

As for aftermarket EFi, there are many systems that retain the original look and carb of the engine and simply add one or as many injectors as there are cylinders with a discrete ECU for fuel and ignition management.
A single injector would be fitted on or near the throttle body and is known as TBI or Throttle Body Injection. Multiple injectors would be mounted in the inlet manifold in the tracts near to the inlet port.
Usually a timing trigger is needed for the injectors which can serve as a base line for the ignition too then a sensor (usually Hall Effect) is added to the distributor to fire the ECUs coil output to provide the sparks.

The benefit of this is it preserves the original appearance for the most part while giving the modern benefits of electronic ignition and fuel injection. If you've ever watched Car SOS, they often fit this kind of system to modernise the driving experience, most recent one i've seen was on a Hillman Imp of all things but in the past, they've also fitted it to a Triumph Herald among others.

As you can see, there are a few extra bits but at first glance, it's a standard looking Stag V8 engine.

I have no axe to grind about aftermarket FI kits Dave, I've seen them on bikes for the past 40 years - they are not my cup of tea. I subscribe to a Royal Enfield bikes forum, where one of the hottest topics is converting 500cc UCE engines (like mine, they come with FI to meet the emissions regulations) to a carburettor. There are complete kits produced for this, usually consisting of a Mikuni carburettor, some bits of plumbing stuff as well as something to confuse the ECU into thinking the FI is still there. These seem to be £375 worth of complete madness to me, but I'm always surprised by the number of people that go for. Having shelled out £375 and a fair bit of work they then feel duty bound to insist the conversion was good value... ho hum.

My point in the post above was not particularly about the FI, but about tarting up a cooking 244 DL so much that it detracts from its potential market. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't think there is much market for a warmed up 244 DL and it may well be worth less than a more standard car would have been. It looks like the owner of the blue car paid about 3 grand for the FI, another £800 for the exhaust and £350 for a camshaft - to me that sounds like nonsense for a B21 motor with a 4 speeder gearbox - but the market will tell us whether it has made it into a £10,000 motor car on Friday.

:-)

PS. If we ignore the insurance bid on the 244, the rest of the market is only at £2580 with 2 days to go. Perhaps the seller would have done better to cut a hole in the bonnet for an air scoop, jack up the rear, fit some under-car lighting and advertise the motor car in 'Hot Rod Monthly'?

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I have no axe to grind about aftermarket FI kits Dave, I've seen them on bikes for the past 40 years - they are not my cup of tea. I subscribe to a Royal Enfield bikes forum, where one of the hottest topics is converting 500cc UCE engines (like mine, they come with FI to meet the emissions regulations) to a carburettor. There are complete kits produced for this, usually consisting of a Mikuni carburettor, some bits of plumbing stuff as well as something to confuse the ECU into thinking the FI is still there. These seem to be £375 worth of complete madness to me, but I'm always surprised by the number of people that go for. Having shelled out £375 and a fair bit of work they then feel duty bound to insist the conversion was good value... ho hum.

My point in the post above was not particularly about the FI, but about tarting up a cooking 244 DL so much that it detracts from its potential market. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't think there is much market for a warmed up 244 DL and it may well be worth less than a more standard car would have been. It looks like the owner of the blue car paid about 3 grand for the FI, another £800 for the exhaust and £350 for a camshaft - to me that sounds like nonsense for a B21 motor with a 4 speeder gearbox - but the market will tell us whether it has made it into a £10,000 motor car on Friday.

:-)

PS. If we ignore the insurance bid on the 244, the rest of the market is only at £2580 with 2 days to go. Perhaps the seller would have done better to cut a hole in the bonnet for an air scoop, jack up the rear, fit some under-car lighting and advertise the motor car in 'Hot Rod Monthly'?

I partially misunderstood the nature of your post then Alan - i thought it was aimed purely at not liking add-ons for add-ons sake. Hence my in-depth about the benefits of updating to EFi although if memory serves, they have used 4 throttle bodies so is more of a performance mod than driveability.

That said, the wheels aren't really in keeping with the car overall, a set from a later 7/940 would still suit the car (as you well know!) and be in the ballpark of being contemporary and possibly a factory or dealer option when the car was current.

However fitting alternative wheels isn't a bad thing if it's done in keeping with the cars style and what would have been around at the time the car was new and/or current and doesn't significantly alter the cars raison d'etre.

By that i mean the 240 series was generally marketed/viewed as a safe family car. Fitting slightly (and i do mean slightly) larger wheels and tyres while retaining a good proportion of tyre:wheel as long as the wheels are somewhat understated (as befits the general character of the 240 series) would work very well.
Fitting wheels that belong on a boy-racer chariot is a big no-no though!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I partially misunderstood the nature of your post then Alan - i thought it was aimed purely at not liking add-ons for add-ons sake. Hence my in-depth about the benefits of updating to EFi although if memory serves, they have used 4 throttle bodies so is more of a performance mod than driveability.

That said, the wheels aren't really in keeping with the car overall, a set from a later 7/940 would still suit the car (as you well know!) and be in the ballpark of being contemporary and possibly a factory or dealer option when the car was current.

However fitting alternative wheels isn't a bad thing if it's done in keeping with the cars style and what would have been around at the time the car was new and/or current and doesn't significantly alter the cars raison d'etre.

By that i mean the 240 series was generally marketed/viewed as a safe family car. Fitting slightly (and i do mean slightly) larger wheels and tyres while retaining a good proportion of tyre:wheel as long as the wheels are somewhat understated (as befits the general character of the 240 series) would work very well.
Fitting wheels that belong on a boy-racer chariot is a big no-no though!

Perhaps I explained that poorly Dave. I have no axe to grind about people fitting aftermarket FI, alloy wheels and low profile tyres, what I think about the blue car is not important in this context; this thread is generally about what the market thinks (and therefore what the value of different Volvo 240 motor cars might be). In this case my point was that the modifications might well have detracted from the value of a 1980 244 DL, rather than added to it.

The market will tell us whether I'm right about that tomorrow when this auction ends. My feeling is that if someone wanted a FI 1980 Volvo 244 they would buy a GLT (which would have also come with alloy wheels and would look less odd with low profile tyres) rather than a warmed up DL.

The seller does seem to have spent £6,000 on the blue 244 this year, we don't know how much he/she paid for the car, but £3,000 would seem a reasonable guess for a 244 DL that had been recommissioned - so if the market values it at around £10,000 tomorrow we will understand that was a good investment, and furthermore that it is worth warming up a DL rather than buying a GLT in the first place.

I might well be wrong, but I don't think the motor car will make close to £10,000. We will find out tomorrow (barring shill bidding, which I think might be a possibility with this auction).

Alan

PS. I have a particular interest in this motor car because it is so similar to the RB, and therefore it will give me an idea how much it would be worth spending on the project. My feeling is that in the current market 1980 244s will top out at about £6,000 (but that would have to be an excellent car - better than the RB or this blue 244 DL); we see cars advertised at more than that but I don't think they ever sell (whatever some people might claim).

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Moomoo

Aye I probably will have a look. At least ,as you say, it'll set some sort of bench mark.
I'm in no rush.
Thanks for the grounding words, Mrs. Moomoo , is no help. Heard it all before!!

Did you go and see the motor car in Wellingborough? If so what did you think?

Alan

[Moomoo]

No bud , I didn't.

I wasn't going to buy it ,after a lot of thought. Looking around there's a fair few of all sorts about, as someone on here said. I've just driven 200 odd miles in my present motor, 2.0 l diesel Mini Clubman. Mmmmm, nice enough but a JC it ain't.

Mrs. Moomoo caught me perusing a 15 reg V70 today.

The Lord only knows where any of this is going. Muddled in the head right now.

As my classics master used to say " Andrew's behaviour would be less distressing in a younger boy".

Thanks for asking though!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Moomoo

No bud , I didn't.

I wasn't going to buy it ,after a lot of thought. Looking around there's a fair few of all sorts about, as someone on here said. I've just driven 200 odd miles in my present motor, 2.0 l diesel Mini Clubman. Mmmmm, nice enough but a JC it ain't.

Mrs. Moomoo caught me perusing a 15 reg V70 today.

The Lord only knows where any of this is going. Muddled in the head right now.

As my classics master used to say " Andrew's behaviour would be less distressing in a younger boy".

Thanks for asking though!

:-) I’m sure it will suddenly become clear.

That is funny, I was thinking that I might buy a Mini (just because I’ve never had one of the new type), but Dan (my son, aged nearly 17) wants me to get this instead:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...?atmobcid=soc4

… we don’t need another car of course, but that isn’t really the point - is it?

Alan

[Moomoo]

Originally Posted by Othen

:-) I’m sure it will suddenly become clear.

That is funny, I was thinking that I might buy a Mini (just because I’ve never had one of the new type), but Dan (my son, aged nearly 17) wants me to get this instead:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...?atmobcid=soc4

… we don’t need another car of course, but that isn’t really the point - is it?

Alan

Just checked your sons choice, no tow bar or roof rack available!

He's young!