Advice for a newbie

[Last Triumph]

Hello everyone.

I'm from an classic American / Volkswagen background, but have always hankered after a P1800.

I know very little about them other than basic internet research and was wondering if anyone would be kind enough to give me a few pointers on what to look for in a prospective purchase and what I might pay.

I've found a '67 in need of a little re-comissioning following a period of dry storage, but is complete and running.

I've not yet inspected the car but on the face of it it appears fairly original and unmolestered.

So, what are the main areas to look for and what is a sensible price to pay for a rolling cosmetic restoration project that is a useable car, but in need of loving and fettling etc.

I don't want a full on resto, and can't afford a perfect show car.

Thanks in advance!

[capt jack]

In a word - RUST!

If you're looking for an easy restore do not even contemplate an 1800 unless it needs no bodywork doing at all.

The bodyshell is fiendishly complex, repair panels horribly expensive.

If you've found one that's structurally sound they are fabulous-looking cars, and the oily bits are pure 1960s Amazon. Where fitted, the fuel-injection is early Bosch D-Jet. This in itself is not without it's trauma and trials! A '67 will have carbs however.

All the mechanicals are strong, simple and robust, and being shared with almost all Volvos of the period, bits are not too difficult to get. Interior trim and body panels are rare however, and pricey.

Remember that what was refined in the mid-sixties (when these cars were designed) is crude and barge-like by todays standards.

I have a 72 ES auto, and I love her to bits, but I wouldn't want to use her as an everyday car. Noisy, slow, heavy to drive, brakes that are only OK.

60 mph arrives at 3000rpm and so in some ways I wish mine had a manual gearbox, an overdrive would be even better.

But they are great cars, and always get admiring looks and comment.

Hope that helps!

Jack

[Last Triumph]

Ah, so basically the same as a VW Karman Ghia then...

The car I was looking at turned out to be more P38 than metal...

I don't mind doing a bit of bodywork as I've got all the gear - MIG welder, compressor, air tools, spray guns etc and have completed several full 'body off' rotation jig restorations before, it's just that I don't want another one!

But, I'm happy if a quality patch is needed here or there etc.

Sounds a real case of getting the most original, complete and rot free example you can afford then?

Are there any particular models or years to avoid, or search for etc, or is rust the biggest factor in choosing the right car?

Thanks!

[AidanC]

I'm also looking for one (so I'm the competition!) but tracking down a good one for realistic money isn't easy.

The Jensen ones might be more prone to rust (Volvo were very unhappy with the build quality) but they all seem to rust quite easily and are sometimes (often) bodged.

I've had some correspondence with this guy - he seems honest in his description of any issues with the car:

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C100839/

I don't know if there's any trend in terms of one year being better than another so individual condition seems to be the main rule.

Boot floor, inner wings, outer wings (horizontal surface), wheel arches, boot lid edge, chassis legs and bonnet hinge mounts seem to be the main areas that I've seen. Paint cracks in the windscreeen pillars seem to be common too - not sure if its a stressed point or previous filler lifting. Rust around the windscreen seal seems to be common too.

Also leaks into the car from the back window seal - the resultant rust can be hidden behind the trim and can become quite extensive.

Joking aside, I'm looking for a car that doesn't need much if any bodywork - if you come across one that fits that description that you don't go for maybe you could let me know about it. Similarly if I come across any that are too much work for me then I'll let you know.

Roughly where in the country was the '67 that you passed on? - I just want to make sure that I avoid it too...

Hope this helps,

Aidan

[asneddon]

From my reading, the Jensen ones are no more probne to rust than the S's. The problems were with Pressed Steel who provided the bodys to Jensen, who then did the final preperation and assembly. There were a lot of problems with body gaps etc that Jensen had to rectify before preparing/painting. As the contract was with Pressed Steet - > Volvo, not Pressed Steel -> Jensen, the Jenesn factory had no authority to get the dodgy bodys sorted out at source. Volvo ended up sending a quality control manager over to Jensen to help sort this out, but aparantly he didn't speak English, so wasnt much use

I think as to the ones that are more sought after, it comes down to personal preferences. I really dislike the fake wood dash of the later ones, but some people like them. I think the Cow-Horn bumbers are the bees knees, but I know some people think they look too fiddly. I HAD to have a Jensen one, as my mum use to drive a Jensen Interceptor and it was the most fun an immortal 16 year old boy could have (well, I went to an all-boys school, so other fun things were out of the question).

The one I bought (after 4 years of looking) looked ok on the outside, but I knew there was a little rust. When the body shop saw it they said about 2 weeks to fix it (front headlight area, windscreen surround, in front of the doors). Once the paint started comming off it was apparent that the entire car had been restored 3 times in the past. I ended up doing a 6 month bare metal rebuild, with about 50% new metal!

I spent over twice the purchase price on the body alone (almost three times in fact if you take bits like new bumpers into account), so I would suggest making sure you get the best quality one you can, even if it costs more than you think its worth. The money that was going to go towards redoing the interior and uprating the engine/suspension was already spent before I ever got it home. Not that it maters much. I'm planning on retiring with this car, and at least now I can feel confident in everything thats been done to it. I know there have been no shortcuts taken.

[AidanC]

You're probably right about the Jensen ones being no less prone to rust than the Swedish ones seeing as the ones that I've seen have been no more rusty than any others.

Stories like yours give me nightmares as any of the cars that I've seen had some rust issues which might well have become major issues on further exploration. The risk of buying a moneypit seems to be very high.

[asneddon]

I wouldnt take mine as representitive. After such a long search, I rushed at the end. I just wanted one, and I had only seen 3 Jensen ones with all the bits come up.

A lot of my rebuild was because I wanted everything done to the car to be the best. If I cant afford it then I will put it off.

Ie, the front wings had been repaired in the past, then repaired over the top, then lead filled over the repairs. I could have just left them, but thought I may as well replace all those repairs with a single panel and know there is solid metal there.

You do have to be honest with your budget though. My budget was £8K to buy and get to reliable as a daily driver, then £2K per year thereafter to upgrade/repair/etc. As I have no intention of ever selling (I've wanted one since I was 10 (25 years ago!)). I've totally blown out the purchase price, but I'm trying to stick to the on-going costs. Not quite doing that though, as I've done some things like new exhaust, new springs and shocks, new steering box, etc that I didnt really have to do.

Still, you only live once right

[222s]

In addition to what has already been said, it's worth talking to Gordon Hunter, the 1800 register keeper, as he knows these cars inside out. I believe that he can also inspect potential purchases.

[Last Triumph]

Car I went to see was in Wrexham, North Wales. Has been sold now anyway.

So I guess there's no chance of finding one in original paint, no matter how faded / scratched?

I always like a car in original paint as nothing can be hidden.

[Derek UK]

You might find a car with all or most of the original paint but unfortunately the 1800 rusts from the inside to out. It just festers away, so a few bubbles quickly change to large holes when investigated. I'm sure there are a few here who spent £2-3K on pro welding with just local painting to cover the scars, leaving them with a car that looked very little different to before the job started. Going to see some rusty examples with no intention of buying, repeat, no intention of buying, will give you an idea as to what areas you need to check when you do look seriously.
Buy in haste, repent at leisure, as you watch your funds dwindle!