Any Advice, Part 2!

[Laird Scooby]

Bob makes a good point there Chris - the fault may lie in the connection to the original loom, chances are if you remove the rear-most trim panel that helps hold the headlining in you'll find the connections and may even find the fault too.

It's always fun (NOT!) going in to a previously repaired loom, no knowing if it's been done properly or whether it's been bodged until you get in there!

[Chris152]

Thanks chaps.

Well, it looks like we'll have to delay the MoT We had another go at wobbling the wires to see what might alter things, had a fiddle with the wires in the tailgate hinge (I think that was the mistake) and arrived at the point where the number plate lights work intermittently and the brake light comes on without the pedal being depressed! So I guess we need to crack on and get the job done.

I looked through the paperwork that came with the car and it seems one side of the wiring was done in 2010 (the off side), but not the other. You can see from the photo of the NS hinge that at least one of the wires is damaged in there. The off side seems to be nice and tidy.
When I reached inside the panel in the tailgate to check the connections (blue in the photo) they were hot - I guess that's not normal either?

Sooo - am I correct thinking we need to do things as follows? We need to:
1. Get the NS headlining loose (we tried, but it wouldn't shift);
2. cut the NS wires leading into the hinge
3. remove the wires from the hinge down into the tailgate
4. get new wires to replace them plus a few inches length to allow the 'loop' avoiding the hinge that we see on the FS
5. connect the new wires via a junction box, drill hole in frame (as per FS) to feed the wires from beneath the headliner, and feed wires down the existing hole in the tailgate (you can see one on the photo of the FS hinge, it's already there both sides)
6. Fit new connectors to connect the new wires to existing wiring (the bits I described above as hot) in the tailgate.
7. Take for MoT

Does that sound right? And I just thought we needed to change a bulb

ps Currently working through this
https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=119074
I should have read before writing the above, I was in a tiz after making things worse on the car! Sorry

[Bob Meadows]

I'm not sure if the circled loom you show in the picture is original:~
On the "F" registration it is through the hinge as your other picture.

The headlining removal is a bit of a knack I suppose- grip the liner on the curve and pull up and out, the edges have a stiff sewn in nylon band that hooks into a metal "C" shaped channel- once you remove an inch or so it will become clear.
Your approach plan is about right- not complicated so take some time to get it right.
Cable- soldering iron- sleeving - a slight bead of gasket sealer on the hinge rubbers also helps, you may find remnants of "Dum Dum" no longer available but butylene is.
Regards Bob.

[Chris152]

Thanks Bob - I found a video of removing the headliner, we were trying to pull and drop both the vinyl and the steel channel, didn't realise it's just the vinyl sitting in the channel!
I think we're going to go for re-routing around the hinge rather than through it - the more I read, the more it's clear it keeps breaking when through the hinge.

I found a loom on Brookhouse, but the wires in their photo are completely different from on our car, and the connectors in the tailgate look different. This could be a real source of problems for us, as we start refitting connectors and finding the wires are connected to the wrong parts.

I'm not sure which way to go, but I've been wondering if it's a bad idea to simply re-route new wires from the connector under the headliner around the hinge, and to connect to the existing wires coming out of the top of the tailgate (cut off at the hinge, and re-routed to exit the larger hole already existing at the top of the tailgate frame, as has been done on the OS already on our car) using butt connectors which can then be tucked into the hole in the frame. That way we don't have the problem of which wire connects to which item in the tailgate (NS wiring has number plate lights, heated window and brake light), and it's a lot quicker/ easier/ less tricky than feeding a new loom through and trying to connect to the components?

Just trying to find a manageable way round this for people with no experience - I have a feeling if we go the 'normal' route we could end up getting in quite a muddle.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Chris152

Thanks Bob - I found a video of removing the headliner, we were trying to pull and drop both the vinyl and the steel channel, didn't realise it's just the vinyl sitting in the channel!
I think we're going to go for re-routing around the hinge rather than through it - the more I read, the more it's clear it keeps breaking when through the hinge.

I found a loom on Brookhouse, but the wires in their photo are completely different from on our car, and the connectors in the tailgate look different. This could be a real source of problems for us, as we start refitting connectors and finding the wires are connected to the wrong parts.

I'm not sure which way to go, but I've been wondering if it's a bad idea to simply re-route new wires from the connector under the headliner around the hinge, and to connect to the existing wires coming out of the top of the tailgate (cut off at the hinge, and re-routed to exit the larger hole already existing at the top of the tailgate frame, as has been done on the OS already on our car) using butt connectors which can then be tucked into the hole in the frame. That way we don't have the problem of which wire connects to which item in the tailgate (NS wiring has number plate lights, heated window and brake light), and it's a lot quicker/ easier/ less tricky than feeding a new loom through and trying to connect to the components?

Just trying to find a manageable way round this for people with no experience - I have a feeling if we go the 'normal' route we could end up getting in quite a muddle.

Crikey Chris, you have your work cut out sorting that out! Those bullet connectors look like they weren't crimped properly to start with and half of them don't look pushed together properly.

Have you got a link to the Brookhouse loom please? Looking at what's been done, it make be more economically viable, quicker and easier to purchase that and to fit it as it was originally intended then use blanking grommets (aka blind grommets) to seal off the extra holes.

[Chris152]

Hehe, we'd have our work cut out if everything was as original let alone after someone's changed things.

Here's the Brookhouse loom, Dave:
https://www.classicvolvoparts.co.uk/...les_and_Wiring
(I'm assuming the LH one is the NS one we need.)

I just popped out to look at the connections behind the no. plate, I tried pushing together all I could reach but they didn't budge, I was hoping for an easy fix!
Up top, I removed the headliner and as you can see in the pic, someone seems to have put a short set of wires in that converts the original connectors via butt connectors, before going into the hinge. No idea why.
But it seems like it wouldn't be so tricky to follow my plan of connecting to them, looping past the hinge and butt connecting to the wires at the top of the tailgate?

[Laird Scooby]

I would be tempted to buy this loom from Brookhouse Chris and remove the errrrrrrrr...................... "Field Developed Modification"* wiring and run the replacement loom in as Volvo intended.

https://www.classicvolvoparts.co.uk/...RAKE+LIGHT%2E+

Your link took me to the page for three different looms, the one i linked to above is for the 240 estate with centre brake light so should be correct.

If you put a "slave" wire in that you pull into the tailgate as you pull the old loom out, assuming you are pulling original wiring out it should follow the correct route. Then use the "slave" wire to pull the new loom in, feeding the other end as you pull to reduce the tension on it.

To be honest, those blue and red crimp terminals aren't great and certainly not the bullet connectors that have been used. They create 3 joins where one is more than enough, a butt splice is much better but if you can get round the modified wiring by fitting a replacement loom in the correct route, so much the better. Failing that, soldered joints with heatshrink sleeving over it but with all loom joins, ideally the joins should be staggered so they're not all in a bunch which can cause problems later, not to mention a big, hard to hide bunch of joins.

* "Field Developed Modification" - fancy term for a bodge!

[Bob Meadows]

Chris:~
My view on this is keep it original- the loom has lasted a long time via the hinges and although not ideal if should give descent service again when done properly.
If you decide to take a another route then the flexible rubber covers are worth looking at.

Again- I don't see a need for a new loom, you can get the wire gauge from a number of classic car electrical suppliers in the appropriate colours.
Not strictly necessary I suppose but make sure each wire is labeled- these get hidden under the headlining:
The new sections (make them longer) are generally across and through the hinge- tight shrink sleeve helps when passing them through the narrow hinge channels.
Original connections can be used- plus the saving costs are all yours!

Splicing in new wire is quite straight forward (without removing the originals) you do have to get a little inventive as each end has to be pulled clear for soldering/sleeving etc.
A temporary draw cord comes in handy at times.

I think that you will find once completed your confidence builds to tackle the other side if necessary.
Regards Bob.

[Chris152]

Thank you both.

Bob - the OS has already been rewired by the previous owner using a bypass loop and all seems to be working that side.
If we're going ahead with the whole loom, I still want to bypass that hinge, and think it best if we get a replacement loom (hopefully it'll be long enough to allow that loop past the hinge) - I've no idea about wire gauges and connectors, so having the whole lot in one will make it easier and hopefully quicker. But that remains to be seen!
Dave - am I right in assuming that the end of the Brookhouse loom that needs to be fed through the tailgate channel is the one without the plastic connectors, and that it's pulled/ fed from bottom (as seen with the gate closed) to the top?
And am I right thinking that once we get rid of the butt connectors at the top and connect into the original connectors that are under the headliner, the existing wires will pull out of the original plastic connectors allowing the new spades to slip into the spaces left in the connectors, or will we need new connectors at the top? (First photo)

I've been poking around again inside the tailgate and in the attached photos, I think:
1. the Yellow and Blue cables come down the tailgate wall and connect to a red connector leading to the window heater via a blue cable (Photo 2);
2. The white wire down the tailgate cavity turns blue, then connects via the black connection to another blue on its way to the no. plate lights (Photo3);
3. The blue wire down the cavity connects via the white cylinder (and obviously, more blue wires and blue connectors!) to the brake light (Photo 3).

Having made those observations, I feel a bit better about us doing the whole loom, and am just hoping the connectors are simple - we don't have the plier things for prepping and crimping new connectors, nor any connectors, nor an awful lot of confidence in my ability to deal with even the most basic electronics!

I hope the above makes sense....

ps Looking again at the photos, I realise it's not easy to tell how the connectors supplied on the new loom relate to the connectors currently present in my car!

[Laird Scooby]

I'm not quite sure Chris, it's difficult to tell because of the previous repair but probably yes.