Petrol & Diesel Tuning Chips

[wingz123]

Re - Sorry for the delayed response...

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Tylerwatts...please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to the question above...Completely missed this one...

Ok so yes you can only tune/increase the performance. The standard ECU parameters would be seen as a baseline/starting point from which you would use the tuning box to then tune up/find the optimum setup using the dials.

I did have another fellow member testing this for me whereby I would send a tuning module, he would then plug into his car and test using the suggested setup back on the first page of this thread... (I think it was the first page...may have been the second) He was then going to take it on the dyno and paste up a printout of the results displaying the various increases etc.

Unfortunately, due to personal circumstances, he has no longer been able to offer his services in this valuable experiment so therefore will (if anyone is interested and able to offer the same (dyno a diesel engined car with this tuning module in place) then pm me)...

I'm keen to prove sceptics wrong with this...if no interest then once I've managed to source a new turbo for my V40 1.9D (really struggling to find one for a resonable price) then I'll dyno my own car and paste up the results...

To continue with your second question....the 'suggested' setup that I wrote about earlier on in this thread is only suggested and may not be the optimum setup for your car/vehicle. There are obviously so so many different makes and models of car that each one differs and again those that I suggested are general in enhancing the performance. You will have to find the optimum setup for your vehicle. I can advise though...

Hope that helps and goes someway to answering your questions,

Do let me know if you have anymore,

thanks,


James

[deathrider311271]

Im willing to test it on a V70 2.5T if thats any use

Simon

[skye740]

Originally Posted by Mincehead

Here`s one on EvilBay that includes a dyno graph (for diesels only by the look of it):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Performanc...item27be19391a

Has anyone had any experience of these cheaper chips???

[RobbieH]

Been watching with interest....

Originally Posted by wingz123

ii) Can you leave this with me - I can get hold of a dyno plot for you and then send over

Any dyno plots yet? As it appears you have had a hand in this equipment I would assume you would have such information easily to hand.

Originally Posted by wingz123

iii) In response to your question regarding how this tuning module works, what it basically does is ensure power right through the range. What I am saying here is typically with diesels, one can experience flat spots until the turbo boosts up. When ECU's are programmed (factory standard) various EU laws/markets and other vehicles within a manufactures range will dictate what average power/mpg that engine will receive. With this tuning module in place it talks to the ECU and calculates what the optimum settings would be.

Flat spots: well with the D5 engines, and other modern diesels, manufacturers have been using turbo designs such as VNT or twin turbo setups to obtain more usable boost at low rpm/low exhaust gas output levels. Simply injecting more fuel at low boost levels might well increase exhaust gas output but also temperature (EGT) which has its own inplications.

Originally Posted by wingz123

You can expect around 30% more BHP

[QUOTE=wingz123;1025915
With regards to what bhp your likely to see I estimate somewhere in the region of 207bhp.[/quote]

A gain of 30% on the EUIII D5 would take it to 217bhp. So is it 30% or ?? 207bhp is quite an accurate figure, or is it an estimate? I'm confused.

Originally Posted by wingz123

The 'Power' dial sets power and torque produced by the engine whilst the 'Low/Medium' dial sets up the Low/Medium power and torque release between the low-medium rpm range.

Originally Posted by wingz123

Essentially its finding the right (optimum) power setting and best

(most efficient) method of delivering the power..

Power - Power dial
Best way to deliver - Low/Medium dial

Do you have a better expanation please? So is one dial setting some sort of torque limiter - "best way to deliver"?

Originally Posted by wingz123

I would disagree with the word 'tricked' as there is no deception...i.e you are not bypassing anything. As mentioned in my thread on here - the parameters (set by the manufacturer are not altered in any way, shape or form)

The tuning module and ECU both work hand in hand together.

Have a read of this - I'm sure you've probably already read it anyway...
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=138720

Hopefully this will answer any other questions you may have,

Originally Posted by wingz123

How does this tuning module work?
The tuning module sits on the rail pressure sensor. It feeds back a voltage to the ECU on this connection which dictates how much fuel is injected given a load and RPM of the engine.

The ECU does EVERYTHING else after reading the input from the other sensors regarding unburned fuel (lambda) and manifold sensor, crank, cam, AFM etc. The ECU dynamically adjusts the fuel delivery, timing and boost management

Hmmmm..... Not "bypassing" anything but the box (and whatever it contains) is modifying the signals to (and from?) the injection system? Can you show evidence (such as a dyno plot) showing the engine adjusting the boost to match the increased fuelling?

Originally Posted by wingz123

Hi all,
Unlike a remap, the module does not change parameters on the ECU such as boost targets, waste gate frequency or fuel cut thresholds etc.

Err, a D5 doesn't have a wastegate, it's a VNT. I'd rather not have my poor little VNT bones and vanes "chattering" by altering their "frequency. Nor would you I suspect.

Originally Posted by wingz123

Hi all,
For that reason it’s safer, although perhaps a little less effective in producing the maximum gains from a diesel (a GOOD remap will always give you more) but a good remap can be hard and expensive to come by.

Whoah, your box is less effective than a good remap although you are claiming 30% power gain to 207bhp for the EUIII D5? Well the MTE D5 remap is produced by a well known and respected tuner and is is definitely not hard to come by. Expensive, well that's open to debate. I've seen "tuning boxes" quoted at the same level of priceing as what I paid for the remap.
So the box is less effective but you're saying it can produce more than my MTE remap? (have a look here for information, including dyno plots http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=85661) More confusion....

Originally Posted by TylerWatts

Are the chips manufactured and specced to only increase performance? What if I wanted to dial down the performance? Could I adjust it both ways, or only up from standard?

Can you clarify for me (and others no doubt) how you have arrived at the specification and design of the chip please? Did you obtain the ECU parameters to determine the required adjustments and ensure you maintain them in a safe and reliable operating range for standard engines?

Please understand I don't want to knock you down, I want to ensure your product is a robust genuine one, plenty cheap knock-offs on eBay that only fudge the signals to the ECU and don't maintain a balance of the overall settings and operation of the engine, and I want tostrongly avoid such a scenario.

We all look forward to hearing more info about your product, so don't hold back!

Originally Posted by wingz123

I'm keen to prove sceptics wrong with this...if no interest then once I've managed to source a new turbo for my V40 1.9D (really struggling to find one for a resonable price) then I'll dyno my own car and paste up the results...

To continue with your second question....the 'suggested' setup that I wrote about earlier on in this thread is only suggested and may not be the optimum setup for your car/vehicle. There are obviously so so many different makes and models of car that each one differs and again those that I suggested are general in enhancing the performance. You will have to find the optimum setup for your vehicle. I can advise though...

I'm not too familiar with the Renault derived 1.9D compared to the D5 so can't comment on whether the results on that engine would be compared to a D5.
Bit in my mind, this still points to the box just being a couple of variable potentiometers that the buyer can vary to signal voltages.

Originally Posted by wingz123

Just to keep you all up-to-date with things....recieved my tracking order so tuning boxes should be with me shortly

Originally Posted by wingz123

As far as a picture goes, I'd like to hold of displaying this just yet. As mentioned the Ebay Shop is due to go live shortly and I am having professional photo's taken with my corporate logo on.

Very sorry but from the information so far, my take would be that you are sourcing generic boxes from somewhere (Far East perhaps) and rebranding/reselling them. Most of the information you have posted bears little difference from that which I have seen from other sellers of these boxes. I'm afraid I continue to be unconvinced.

Originally Posted by longyear

I have one from a different manufacturer. There is no doubting the performance increase, and also I've had no limp modes or other apparant issues, but I have removed mine now because I am running a 'stock' D5 intercooler, and I believe these are insufficient to handle any increased power (remap or tuning box).

The stock intercooler is insufficient even to handle a stock engine, particularly in the EUIII version of the D5 engine. There's enough threads and info across the main Volvo forums documenting that fact. A remap WILL increase boost pressure and that definitely has an effect.



For other people's interest I have found the following about the EDC15 system used in the early D5 engine. Unfortunately, specific information on the EDC15 system as Volvo applies it is very thin but I assume the principles are the same.


Based on Injected Quantity (of fuel)
(For comparison the EDC16 system, as used in the 05> 2.4D and D5 engines, is based on Torque demand and is different to the EDC15 system).

There are several "maps" held within the ECU. All of these maps are 3-dimensional and are interconnected:

-Drivers Wish
Quantity of diesel fuel injected into the engine depending on the engine RPM and the throttle position. The output is injected quantity (IQ) (amount of diesel/stroke).
-Torque limiter
Limits the torque of the engine based on RPM and atmospheric pressure. The output of this map is also IQ.
-Smoke limiter
Limits the IQ based on RPM and inlet air mass flow (for example, if the drivers wish is X mg diesel fue land there is only enough air to burn Ymg diesel, it won't inject Xmg but limit injection at Ymg/stroke.
-Duration map
Shows how many degrees of engine rotation it takes to achieve the amount of fuel injected. So this is a "calibration" map. There may be more than one duration map,for example 4 maps for different coolant temperatures etc.
-Turbo map
Shows the desired turbo pressure at a certain rpm and IQ. The output of this map is turbo pressure.
-N75 map
Controls the VNT vanes inside the turbo at a certain rpm and IQ.
-Boost limiter map
Limits the turbo pressure at a certain rpm and atmospheric pressure.
-EGR map
Regulates the Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve.

It's this sort of information that makes me distrust "tuning boxes" or anything else that simply plugs in and modifies any of the signal paths.

This is for the Bosch EDC15 system for diesels. I'm thinking that that the petrol systems (ME7, etc) will be very different and include things such as ignition adavnce tables/maps and others, so how applying the same plug in box would affect their performance I do not know.

[Spike1918]

Hear, hear, exactly what I was getting at, a variable resistance device, I supect nothing more.

[rnlisg]

hi skye740
i would definately not go down the cheaper chip road,any good ones will have oem original plugs etc for safety and ease of use,the thought of a scotch clip fitting to an important part of the cars leccy system gives me the shakes,i see there are also a number of units available that have little flick switches so you can fiddle about with it!!!i am led to believe these are not really suitable for the rigours of the auto market,more to home use,i have only seen 1 that is iso 9001 quality,its set for your model of car,but can be adjusted with a screwdriver if req,i had one on my discovery 3 i left it alone just fitted it and was very happy.
cheers
sandy

[Bill_56]

It's worth adding to recent posts that the reason many diesel tuning boxes appear to give improved MPG is that they skew the calculations of the car's MPG computer. By persuading the injectors to deliver more fuel than the ECU requested, it creates the illusion that the car has travelled further on the ECU's original fuel requests, and hence the computed MPG readout becomes inflated.

In the 18th and 19th centuries it was fashionable to invent 'perpetual motion' machines. In these days, preceding scientific education of the masses, these machines were sometimes taken seriously. Nowadays most of us understand why they were most unlikely to work and, of course, they didn't work.

By the same token as the perpetual motion machines, any device which claims to improve a car's performance (ie the engine consumes more energy), without impacting MPG (ie there is no more energy consumed), arouses my EXTREME scepticism.

It is vaguely possible that a manufacturer could screw up some aspect of engine efficiency such that a 'tuner' could correct their mistake. But in the days when fuel consumption is the main selling point of cars, how likely are Volvo to screw it up?

[scr8pdo]

Anyone tried this mod, ive been looking into it and it has some very very good press for peanuts, it does sound like a bodge but people are doing it on late cars with excellent results, it was designed by a technician who worked/works for Upsolute:


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=12165

[JamesV70R]

Thats basically what a lot of these "tuning boxes" do, isn't it? You just don't get a fancy branded case around it if you make it yourself!

[longyear]

I still believe that on total balance, the tuning boxes are no more 'dangerous' for your car than a remap.

In fact earlier in this thread Robbie stated that in his opinion, the stock D5 intercooler is insufficient for standard performance, never mind any type of 'tuned' (map or box) performance. And he stated (as we all know) that a remap will change many other variables in addition to fuel mapping, including boost pressure (which will increase with a remap).

So with a remap, my D5 will boost more and put the intercooler at greater risk. Now I know my Tuning Box will never produce the same performance as a remap, but at least the performance increase that I do get (which is very clear and enjoyable) is obtained purely from fuel mapping, and thus not increasing boost.

So in theory, I believe the tuning box, whilst not being as potent or fuel-efficient as a remap, is arguably safer.

Mine has 8 settings: I am running on setting 7 now, getting great performance (I suspect around 20-25bhp more than the stock 163hp), with no black smoke, no limp modes or other issues. The car just runs. And it runs great. In fact with the tuning box on, it idles a lot, lot smoother.

Just my honest experiences chaps, YMMV.