Stunning 240 estate

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

That is not a bad idea at all, 'L.S.'. The 2 series is well up to occasional light towing duties and as you say many - especially estates - were so equipped from new. If Alan can bear to fit one to the R.B. it may be the answer to his dilemma.

I towed a light 6' x 4' trailer extensively in period with both 2 and 7 series cars with few issues. My cars were equipped for towing when I bought them and the BFWL functioned as normal, so presumably wiring for same was standard in period. I don't know if it will be of any help to Alan, but I also successfully carried one of those light 'spectacle' bike carriers directly on the towbar. They were ideal for mopeds and lightweight motor cycles, but I doubt that they would be suitable for heavy machines like Alan's Triumph.

Regards, John.

The other thing is John, i speculated on the other Volvo Alan may be bringing to the mix further up, if it's my first suggestion (262C) or the last one which i'm keeping quiet about for now, either of those would be well up to towing but again, if auto would need an auxiliary ATF cooler to tow more than 1000kg.

The way the BFU works is it passes the current to a pair of bulbs in the circuit through a pair of coils, each wound in opposite directions next to a reed switch. If both bulbs are working, the fact that each coil is wound in opposite directions to the other means they both produce a magnetic field in the opposite direction - a North pole and a South pole of a pair of bar magnets if you will. These cancel each other out so the reed switch doesn't move.
However if one bulb is blown (or there is a bit of resistance in the circuit like a bad earth or even a different make bulb) then there is only one magnetic field which operates the reed switch or in the case of resistance, a smaller magnetic field. The larger overcomes the smaller and operates the switch. Note that if both bulbs or the fuse for that circuit fails, no warning will be given.

With this in mind, you can imagine the wires carrying the current have a finite capacity of current. As such adding extra bulbs in the form of a trailer board/trailer lighting "downstream" of the BFU will overload the wires and burn them out resulting in that circuit being inoperative. Therefore the towbar wiring must be connected "upstream" of the BFU, i.e. before the power to the various monitored circuits passes through it.
Obviously this means the trailer lighting isn't monitored.

Meanwhile i'm waiting to see what Alan buys (assuming he does) to know if that woulod be more suitable as a towcar.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Bear in mind most vans will also be BEVs by the time you come to rent them Alan, maybe not as viable as it sounds. I first thought the same as john and was going to suggest the same - great minds and all that - but then it occurred to me most new vans or 4x4s for rental would be BEVs so you'd be restricted on towing again.

As for adding a towbar to the RB, how heavy is the trailer and the load you'd be placing on it? I believe (but would need to confirm) the maximum towing weight is ~1000kg as the RB sits, adding an auxiliary ATF cooler should increase this to ~1500kg and given many 240s (in both saloon and estate form) would have had towbars either from new or bought secondhand because they were regarded as good tow cars in their day, it could be viewed as a "period accessory". Can't remember if you have a Bulb Failure Warning unit on the RB but wiring the towbar would be a mission if so! You'd need to run the 7-core all the way to the dash and pick up the feeds to the BFU, not the feeds from it to the bulbs.

Thanks Dave - but I was more thinking that I could put the bikes inside the van, rather than tow the trailer. I’d just need a ramp.

Both my trailers are 760kg (the limit for unbraked trailers - but in practice they are easily strong enough to carry much more than that). Fitting a towbar to the RB is a possibility, but I’m not all that keen - a boot spoiler and a towbar might look a bit daft! I suppose it could happen though, perhaps I’ll start looking out for a 240 towbar in slow time.

Probably the cheapest solution would just to keep the Skoda. It will be nearly 10 years old by then, so won’t have much resale value, but it is a great workhorse, very well looked after (I’ve owned it from new) and only costs £30/year tax. Part of this idea was to reduce the number of cars and bikes I have.

Alan

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

That is not a bad idea at all, 'L.S.'. The 2 series is well up to occasional light towing duties and as you say many - especially estates - were so equipped from new. If Alan can bear to fit one to the R.B. it may be the answer to his dilemma.

I towed a light 6' x 4' trailer extensively in period with both 2 and 7 series cars with few issues. My cars were equipped for towing when I bought them and the BFWL functioned as normal, so presumably wiring for same was standard in period. I don't know if it will be of any help to Alan, but I also successfully carried one of those light 'spectacle' bike carriers directly on the towbar. They were ideal for mopeds and lightweight motor cycles, but I doubt that they would be suitable for heavy machines like Alan's Triumph.

Regards, John.

As I told Dave above John, my trailers are both 760kg, so well within scope for the RB as it is. I'm still not that keen, but I have about 18 months to come up with a plan.

I'm aiming to get down to just two bike as of this coming summer - so dispose of the CCM off roader and the 1976 Suzuki. I do have one of these trials bike carriers that would be ideal for either of those (but still needs a towbar to mount:



... yes that really is on a Fiat Panda with Dutch plates, and the bike did go all the way to Limburg (and back) on that.

Unfortunately that would not solve the problem as my triumph weighs about 250kg, and the Royal Enfield nearly 200kg:



I have a really nice Erde two-bike trailer that can carry both with an all up weight of no more than 700kg which works really well behind the Skoda. I could just keep the Skoda, it doesn't cost much to run, but I'm aiming to reduce rather than increase the number of vehicles I run over the next 10 months.

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Thanks Dave - but I was more thinking that I could put the bikes inside the van, rather than tow the trailer. I’d just need a ramp.

Both my trailers are 760kg (the limit for unbraked trailers - but in practice they are easily strong enough to carry much more than that). Fitting a towbar to the RB is a possibility, but I’m not all that keen - a boot spoiler and a towbar might look a bit daft! I suppose it could happen though, perhaps I’ll start looking out for a 240 towbar in slow time.

Probably the cheapest solution would just to keep the Skoda. It will be nearly 10 years old by then, so won’t have much resale value, but it is a great workhorse, very well looked after (I’ve owned it from new) and only costs £30/year tax. Part of this idea was to reduce the number of cars and bikes I have.

Alan

Ah, in that case you need an MPV big enough to take bikes, still go like stink and give good fuel economy then! Something like a Honda Elysion V6, 3.0 or 3.5 then you could have something rare and a workhorse too!
You'd still need a ramp but there are lashing points if memory serves inside so the bikes didn't move when you were "playing" away from the lights.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

The other thing is John, i speculated on the other Volvo Alan may be bringing to the mix further up, if it's my first suggestion (262C) or the last one which i'm keeping quiet about for now, either of those would be well up to towing but again, if auto would need an auxiliary ATF cooler to tow more than 1000kg.

The way the BFU works is it passes the current to a pair of bulbs in the circuit through a pair of coils, each wound in opposite directions next to a reed switch. If both bulbs are working, the fact that each coil is wound in opposite directions to the other means they both produce a magnetic field in the opposite direction - a North pole and a South pole of a pair of bar magnets if you will. These cancel each other out so the reed switch doesn't move.
However if one bulb is blown (or there is a bit of resistance in the circuit like a bad earth or even a different make bulb) then there is only one magnetic field which operates the reed switch or in the case of resistance, a smaller magnetic field. The larger overcomes the smaller and operates the switch. Note that if both bulbs or the fuse for that circuit fails, no warning will be given.

With this in mind, you can imagine the wires carrying the current have a finite capacity of current. As such adding extra bulbs in the form of a trailer board/trailer lighting "downstream" of the BFU will overload the wires and burn them out resulting in that circuit being inoperative. Therefore the towbar wiring must be connected "upstream" of the BFU, i.e. before the power to the various monitored circuits passes through it.
Obviously this means the trailer lighting isn't monitored.

Meanwhile i'm waiting to see what Alan buys (assuming he does) to know if that woulod be more suitable as a towcar.

Thank you for that explanation Dave - so the BFU works like a RCD in a domestic wiring application - that does not make the wiring any easier - as you say. Plenty of Volvo 240s have been fitted for towing caravans over the years, so there will be a wiring solution somewhere.

I'm not letting on about what Project Volvo might be yet - just in case it turns out to be no good in the flesh and I don't buy the motor car.

:-)

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Ah, in that case you need an MPV big enough to take bikes, still go like stink and give good fuel economy then! Something like a Honda Elysion V6, 3.0 or 3.5 then you could have something rare and a workhorse too!
You'd still need a ramp but there are lashing points if memory serves inside so the bikes didn't move when you were "playing" away from the lights.

Unfortunately Dan and I agreed many years ago that we would never own a MPV Dave - just one of those things :-)

[john.wigley]

Originally Posted by Othen

Thanks Dave - but I was more thinking that I could put the bikes inside the van, rather than tow the trailer. I’d just need a ramp.

Alan

The bikes would also be better protected in a van than on a trailer as well, Alan.

I guess it depends on why you are moving the bikes. Some of our lads used a trailer to take bike(s) to a ride-out - riding a 49cc moped to a meet any distance away can quickly become tedious! On longer runs, we would sometimes use a support van, carrying spares, tools, maybe a spare bike or two. This could also act as a 'sweeper', thereby giving following drivers advance warning of slow-moving traffic and the riders a greater degree of protection from faster vehicles.

Regards, John.

What you refer to as a trials bike carrier Alan is very like the type of thing that we used to carry mopeds and autocycles. They worked very well. J.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

The bikes would also be better protected in a van than on a trailer as well, Alan...

... I guess it depends on why you are moving the bikes.

Regards, John.

What you refer to as a trials bike carrier Alan is very like the type of thing that we used to carry mopeds and autocycles. They worked very well. J.

You are so right John,

When I really think about it I probably don't really need either trailer. The 3/4t ramp back is really handy for collecting building materials and taking stuff to the council dump, friends borrow it occasionally for the same purposes but if I'm really candid I could live without it.

The bike trailer is another nice to have: there was a time when I did quite a lot of green lane riding with some mates, and it was really useful to get two off road bikes to Derbyshire or Wales for trips away. If I'm honest with myself I'm probably not fit enough to do that any more (after a couple of hip replacements) so I'm unlikely to need it for that again. I do use the bike trailer for collecting project bikes from time to time, but again I do that much less now (and I'm trying to reduce my collection of bikes).

In conclusion: the answer is more along the lines of a lifestyle change (over the next 18 months) to reduce the number of bikes, motor cars and trailers I own so I can fit in a smaller space when I relocate to spend my dotage somewhere by the sea. I will probably always own the Triumph and the Royal Enfield bikes, but I'll sell the Suzuki 2 stroke and the CCM in the spring - at the same time promise myself that I won't buy any more project bikes. I think I could reconcile the Porsche and the Skoda Superb estate into one vehicle: something like the Tesla Model X would fit the bill (and I suspect there will be a bigger choice of similar EVs in 2 years time - and with it real prices of EVs will continue to fall). The RB is staying whatever - which gets me down to just two motor cars and two motorcycles - at that point the need for the two trailers goes away.

There is a fly in the ointment: there is another Volvo project I'm quite keen on and will have a look at later on this week. If it is okay it could be one last project - and 18 months sounds like a nice timescale.

It has been a really useful to go through the estimate process (as it would have been called in the military) - as always this forum has been a really useful sounding board.

:-) Alan

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

As for adding a towbar to the RB, how heavy is the trailer and the load you'd be placing on it? I believe (but would need to confirm) the maximum towing weight is ~1000kg as the RB sits, adding an auxiliary ATF cooler should increase this to ~1500kg and given many 240s (in both saloon and estate form) would have had towbars either from new or bought secondhand because they were regarded as good tow cars in their day, it could be viewed as a "period accessory". Can't remember if you have a Bulb Failure Warning unit on the RB but wiring the towbar would be a mission if so! You'd need to run the 7-core all the way to the dash and pick up the feeds to the BFU, not the feeds from it to the bulbs.

Originally Posted by Moomoo

Seem to remember , wiring for seven pin sockets just a plug in affair to existing wiring.
My wife will tell you, I could be wrong!🤔

Originally Posted by john.wigley

That is not a bad idea at all, 'L.S.'. The 2 series is well up to occasional light towing duties and as you say many - especially estates - were so equipped from new. If Alan can bear to fit one to the R.B. it may be the answer to his dilemma.

Regards, John.

The plot thickens chaps...

I have this very morn acquired a Volvo 240 towbar from a very generous ex-member of this forum, it is free of charge but just needs collecting from Coventry. I'll try to pick it up (about a 100 mile round trip, but I'll try to combine it with some other requirement) in the next month.

Much to my chagrin I'll fit it to the RB sometime over the next 18 months and install some electrics. That part of the jigsaw is in place :-)

Alan

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Moomoo

It is cool. I’ve just checked, Hollister, H&M and New Look are doing a roaring trade in Tweed and Cavalry Twill!

... on a tangent Andrew, you might be interested to see the results of this auction by your favourite Bolton second hand motor car dealer:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-240...rdt=true&rt=nc

... it only reached £4,200 this time round, again failing to reach its reserve price. This was its second time through the eBay strainer, the last auction got to £5,500 (still short of its reserve) on 23 December.

Perhaps the market is becoming a bit tired of 'one of the best, if not the best examples of a classic Volvo 240'?

:-)