What's the point of Red and Green Men?

[wimorrison]

I was walking to work this morning from the station which involves crossing may road with traffic lights that have the red and green men for pedestrians.

Everybody ignores them, even the 2 policemen that I walked beside for 3 sets of lights which therefore begs the question - if they are ignored by the people enforcing the law what is the point of having them?

Seems to me that all they are doing is keeping tourists happy as they generally obey them and keeping Siemens people employed as they generally manufacture and maintain these articles.

Of course the other thing they are doing is eating a hole in the public purse which we support with our taxes and community charges.

[tt82]

Hmm, driving to Asda this afternoon an old lady (old, but not really geriatric) nearly stepped out in front of me. She was 20 yds from a Zebra crossing but rather than walk to it she was trying to cross at a busy junction. Theres a school on a busy road a mile away from me where parents regularly stood in the middle of the road with young children instead of walking 50 yds to a pelican crossing, or 25 yds the other way to an Island in the road, all down to pure laziness and wanting to park opposite the enterance to the school and cross there!

Pelican crossing and Island. Route they choose to cross.






I would support a J-walking law here, especially concerning youngsters. Anybody under the age of 16 found crossing the road within 100yds of a crossing point will have their parents/responsible adult they were with fined.

[wimorrison]

I agree with what you say, however finding a responsible adult could be a significant challenge

[Bill_56]

There's one junction in the market town near to where I live, where the central crossroads narros to just one car's width, and so it is controlled by 4-way lights.

It is trivially easy, and completely safe (IMHO) to simply watch the traffic and nip across behind the last car when the lights are changing, to the extent I don't think I remember seeing anybody even bothering to press the 'green man' button. For reason such as that, I'd defend the rights of pedestrians to use their common sense, and resist jay walking laws.

In the larger and busier towns around here the green men crossings seem to be greatly appreciated by some (emphasise that word!) cyclists as they are often conveniently situated for fast access to footpaths and other pedestrian zones.

[Daim]

Originally Posted by wimorrison

I was walking to work this morning from the station which involves crossing may road with traffic lights that have the red and green men for pedestrians.

Everybody ignores them, even the 2 policemen that I walked beside for 3 sets of lights which therefore begs the question - if they are ignored by the people enforcing the law what is the point of having them?

Seems to me that all they are doing is keeping tourists happy as they generally obey them and keeping Siemens people employed as they generally manufacture and maintain these articles.

Of course the other thing they are doing is eating a hole in the public purse which we support with our taxes and community charges.

Believe it or not, but if you cross a red pedestrian crossing light here in Germany and are caught doing so, it is treated as if you were to cross a red light whilst driving your car.

You get points and a fine! If you don't have a lisence (say you're a kid) then it costs the parents a few Euros...

Personally I think it is a good idea. Unpersonally I myself do sometimes just cross the red lights if no traffic is to be seen what so ever... I don't though when I am behind the wheel.

[wimorrison]

Originally Posted by Daim

Believe it or not, but if you cross a red pedestrian crossing light here in Germany and are caught doing so, it is treated as if you were to cross a red light whilst driving your car.

You get points and a fine! If you don't have a lisence (say you're a kid) then it costs the parents a few Euros...

Personally I think it is a good idea. Unpersonally I myself do sometimes just cross the red lights if no traffic is to be seen what so ever... I don't though when I am behind the wheel.

Daim

Having lived in Germany for many years I know how strict they can be and also the difference that having the STVA as a law and Highway Code as a guide makes.

That is one of the reason that visitors stand waiting for the green man, it is they way they were brought up, to obey the law, rather than adopt the 'I'm all right, jack' attitude that is prevalent in UK now

BTW, I was fined CHF50 for crossing the road in Zurich last year not using the approved crossing place - and as you are aware it is an 'on the spot' fine, no argument, no leeway, pay up or get nicked (and then pay a lot more).

I was also fined DM25 many years ago for stopping a junction with the nose of my car over the whiteline - I am sure you are also aware of that

[Daim]

Originally Posted by wimorrison

Daim

Having lived in Germany for many years I know how strict they can be and also the difference that having the STVA as a law and Highway Code as a guide makes.

That is one of the reason that visitors stand waiting for the green man, it is they way they were brought up, to obey the law, rather than adopt the 'I'm all right, jack' attitude that is prevalent in UK now

BTW, I was fined CHF50 for crossing the road in Zurich last year not using the approved crossing place - and as you are aware it is an 'on the spot' fine, no argument, no leeway, pay up or get nicked (and then pay a lot more).

I was also fined DM25 many years ago for stopping a junction with the nose of my car over the whiteline - I am sure you are also aware of that

Yeah, the German StVO is a VERY thick book and is full of dos and def. do nots. But then again, this does make the German driver stupid, as he/she can not adapt to a different situation. For example: roundabouts. They are now getting in fashion here but the German highway code has two different laws with contradict eachother in terms of right of way. Result: traffic sticks nastily. Or the "green arrow sign" at a red light (a little green arrow next to the red light, always pointing right allowing you to turn right after coming to a halt at a red light). Imported from the former GDR, the Germans can't get on with it. Either they sit in front of it and don't know what to do or they simply driver over the red light turning off as if the light was green...

But yeah, fines are quickly given and if you are caught "red handed" then you pay on the spot. If you can't the fine is either doubled are sometimes even trippled due to administration fees etc.

[Bill_56]

To clarify my understanding... there is no law in the UK against a pedestrian crossing on red, is there?

As a slight aside, one thing I've noticed in visits to the USA (Southern states especially) is that should somebody (usually a Brit' who doesn't know the local laws and who's also failed to look the right way) step out into traffic and in violation of the Jay Walking laws, most cars will just calmly and courteously come to a standstill and wait for the pedestrian to correct their mistake. There is not usually the blasting of horns or shouts of abuse as would happen in London if a pedestrian dared to inconvenience the traffic.

[Daim]

Originally Posted by Bill_56

To clarify my understanding... there is no law in the UK against a pedestrian crossing on red, is there?

As a slight aside, one thing I've noticed in visits to the USA (Southern states especially) is that should somebody (usually a Brit' who doesn't know the local laws and who's also failed to look the right way) step out into traffic and in violation of the Jay Walking laws, most cars will just calmly and courteously come to a standstill and wait for the pedestrian to correct their mistake. There is not usually the blasting of horns or shouts of abuse as would happen in London if a pedestrian dared to inconvenience the traffic.

I doubt a UK driver would get along with the US driving laws and right of way either... A crossroad with say 10 joining roads. No lights. Traffic would flow in the States quietly, calmly, no issues. First come, first go. The "common" European (and Brit) would probably stand there giving way to the left/right/whoever!

[Bill_56]

Originally Posted by Daim

I doubt a UK driver would get along with the US driving laws and right of way either... A crossroad with say 10 joining roads. No lights. Traffic would flow in the States quietly, calmly, no issues. First come, first go. The "common" European (and Brit) would probably stand there giving way to the left/right/whoever!

Too true. Or (the Brit) would get a bit paranoid, start to feel cheated, and shoot forwards aggressively when it wasn't his turn.

Odd though that they cope so well as motorists, considering that US ctizens have a certain reputation for (dis)orderly queing in other circumstances, like waiting for a bus or taxi at the airport.