1800: 1972 pv1800es

[Othen]

Originally Posted by 142 Guy

A note on the electronic ignition. If you are thinking about the modules like the Pertronix which just replace ignition points, be aware that the bigger issue may be the rest of the distributor. On a 50 year old distributor the shaft bushings may be worn and the mechanical advance mechanism may be sticky or the springs out of spec. The vac servo function may be non operative. The distributor may be rebuildable with the exception of the vac servo which I think is out of production. My B20E displayed a lot of timing fluctuation above 2500 RPM which I fixed by eliminating the distributor.

If the distributor is mechanically fine, modules like the Pertronix are useful for eliminating the points wear issue; but, they do not improve performance. The Pertronix module has a fixed voltage drop across its output terminals (about 2 volts) which drops the available voltage across the ignition coil and limits peak coil current and spark energy. That is not a particular problem if the vehicle charging system is running close to 14 volts and the engine does not run over 6000 RPM. It can be a problem in cold weather starts where the cranking voltage drops to 10 volts (or a lot less at the coil terminal). The reduced spark energy can make cold weather starting problematic.

If you want to make an ignition system improvement, I suggest a fine wire sparkplug such as the NGK iridium plugs. The fine wire center electrode creates a stronger local electrical field at the tip of the plug which allows it to generate a strong spark with compromised fuel mixtures. I have been running the same iridium plugs in my B20E for about 5 years without issue. I do not recommend them if the engine burns oil or has poor fuel mixture control because they are too expensive to be changing on a regular basis because of fuel or oil contamination.

If the starter motor dies, make sure that it is replaced with the later Bosch SR 437X starter motor which is a gear driven permanent magnet starter. It is pretty much a drop in replacement for the existing Bosch SR 37X. Every Volvo 2, 7 and 9 series RWD car starting sometime in the 1980s received the SR 437X. The SR 437X draws less current when cranking (you end up with higher voltages which is good for the ignition system) and it spins the engine faster. Improves starting because of the higher cranking speed and higher cranking voltage.

Finally, you made an earlier comment about installing correct headlight sockets using a soldering iron for the repair. I would treat soldering as an absolute last resort for repairs. Getting large gauge copper wires hot enough to avoid a cold solder joint usually results in heat damage to the adjacent wiring insulation. The insulation on the 1800's wiring will be 85C at best. The second problem is that if you get the wire hot enough to avoid a cold solder joint solder will migrate up the strands of the copper away from the joint stiffening the wire. In the long term this makes the repair subject to fracture from vibration because of the inflexibility. My preferred method for simple splices is an uninsulated closed barrel crimp style butt splice covered with a piece of heat shrink tubing - double walled if the area is subject to moisture. A correctly sized closed barrel splice covered with heat shrink will only be slightly larger that the existing wire avoiding the ugly pink / blue / yellow blobs associated with common insulated butt splices.

Many thanks - very knowledgeable.

The starter is a bit sluggish, but I haven't had time to look at it yet. Are we saying a starter from any 2/7/9 series car from the mod 80s onwards will fit?

Re soldering: I use these waterproof self solder joints a lot and think they are excellent. I generally have to make up a heat shield to protect the environs:

[john.wigley]

One thing to watch out for while you are looking at the engine, Alan, is the timing gear. If memory serves, and it is the same as the 144/5, which I think it is, it will be of fibre bonded to a steel hub. The bond can fail, resulting in a rhythmic knocking, with the ultimate disintegration of the gear itself (ask me how I know this (!)) If left unrectified. I believe solid steel replacements are still available, but they are a little noisier in operation than the fibre ones if that should be a consideration.

Regards, John.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by c1800

As maybe has been said, check all sources of possible oil leaks before resorting to rear main seal. Valve cover gasket especially . The holes for the screws on the valve cover are typically mushroomed so need to be re-flattened before fitting a new gasket. Also if there is excess crankcase pressure, that needs to addressed. And check the configuration of the PCV system.

http://www.sw-em.com/pcv_diagrams_an...tm#PCV_Options

Lots of other good info on that website too.

In regard to the RMS, varying opinions of Rubber vs Felt. Have a view of this video particularly in respect of the differences between various rubber seals.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=doiF25...nel=AmazonCars

Many thanks,

See above (I know, this is becoming a long thread already) - I changed the rocker box gasket the other day (a new one came with the car). I'd hoped that would have solved the problem - but no. The old talcum powder check shows the oil isn't coming from the top of the engine - so the crank main bearing is the prime suspect. If there was anything else to suspect low down at the back of the engine I'd suspect that first - but there isn't.

If the Barr's additive I've used doesn't work in a week or so I think we'll probably be changing the rear seal. It looks like a pretty easy job, and someone mentioned a later, synthetic seal was available. If I do end up doing that it might be a good idea to change the clutch plate at the same time.

Alan

[142 Guy]

According to the application guides, the 240 series and 700 series started receiving the SR437X starter in 1985. Every B2XX engine equipped car should have one after that. Its pretty much a drop in replacement for the SR 37X except the mounting ears are threaded to accept metric bolts. The SR37X has unthreaded ears and the bolts go right through the ears and bell housing to be retained by nuts on the back of the bell housing. You can drill out the ears and reuse the existing starter bolts (which precludes returning the starter if it is a dud) or you can purchase some slightly smaller diameter metric bolts that fit through the threaded area and allow retaining bolts on the back. If the 1800 has lots of room between the bellhousing and the firewall you could feed the correct long bolts from the back and thread them into the ears eliminating the need for the retaining nuts. On my 140, the clearance to the firewall is tight and the retaining bolts must be fed in from the front. There is just enough room to get your hand up behind the bell housing to spin the retaining nuts on and a wrench to hold the nuts while you tighten them.

As to the oil leak, two possible culprits in addition to the rear main seal. The camshaft hole is bored through the block from front to back. The back is closed off by one of those knock in plugs like those used to seal the casting holes in the side of the block. Leakage is a rare problem - unless somebody got careless during a cam shaft install and knocked the plug loose with the cam. There is also a hex plug on the an oil gallery at the back of the engine on the right side that has the potential to leak, although it is rare. Both are only accessible if the bell housing is off so main seal, cam gallery plug, or oil gallery plug - pick your poison. The bell housing is coming off for the fix. My bet would be the rear main seal.

You are correct that a modern neoprene lip seal is a common upgrade for the rear seal. It requires a replacement housing. Your favorite vintage Volvo specialist should have matching seals and housings available.

Check the oil level. If it is filled to the upper fill line more oil gets flung around and it will increase the leakage from the oil pan gasket flange area which tends to migrate to the back of the engine. The B20 oil pan gasket bares a remarkable similarity to the valve cover gasket in terms of its sealing technology, or absence there of.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by 142 Guy

According to the application guides, the 240 series and 700 series started receiving the SR437X starter in 1985. Every B2XX engine equipped car should have one after that. Its pretty much a drop in replacement for the SR 37X except the mounting ears are threaded to accept metric bolts. The SR37X has unthreaded ears and the bolts go right through the ears and bell housing to be retained by nuts on the back of the bell housing. You can drill out the ears and reuse the existing starter bolts (which precludes returning the starter if it is a dud) or you can purchase some slightly smaller diameter metric bolts that fit through the threaded area and allow retaining bolts on the back. If the 1800 has lots of room between the bellhousing and the firewall you could feed the correct long bolts from the back and thread them into the ears eliminating the need for the retaining nuts. On my 140, the clearance to the firewall is tight and the retaining bolts must be fed in from the front. There is just enough room to get your hand up behind the bell housing to spin the retaining nuts on and a wrench to hold the nuts while you tighten them.

As to the oil leak, two possible culprits in addition to the rear main seal. The camshaft hole is bored through the block from front to back. The back is closed off by one of those knock in plugs like those used to seal the casting holes in the side of the block. Leakage is a rare problem - unless somebody got careless during a cam shaft install and knocked the plug loose with the cam. There is also a hex plug on the an oil gallery at the back of the engine on the right side that has the potential to leak, although it is rare. Both are only accessible if the bell housing is off so main seal, cam gallery plug, or oil gallery plug - pick your poison. The bell housing is coming off for the fix. My bet would be the rear main seal.

You are correct that a modern neoprene lip seal is a common upgrade for the rear seal. It requires a replacement housing. Your favorite vintage Volvo specialist should have matching seals and housings available.

Check the oil level. If it is filled to the upper fill line more oil gets flung around and it will increase the leakage from the oil pan gasket flange area which tends to migrate to the back of the engine. The B20 oil pan gasket bares a remarkable similarity to the valve cover gasket in terms of its sealing technology, or absence there of.

Excellent - and very knowledgeable - thank you.

I did notice the oil level was a bit high when I collected the car, and paid not much notice to it. I'll check that (suck a little bit out if necessary) as well as the PCV system before start taking the gearbox off. Neither will be today though as I'm heading south to collect a bike I bought yesterday.

I can't help myself but reproduce this picture again (it had already appeared on the 244 thread):



...nothing to do with this thread either, it is just a really cool bike :-)

[packers1712]

When Delores mate Mr Roberts!

Doug.

[Othen]

The H4 headlamp connectors worked fine, I have no idea why the PO would have bodged that job in the first place:



... also one of the window winders works properly now (packers1712 had a spare omega clip).

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

The H4 headlamp connectors worked fine, I have no idea why the PO would have bodged that job in the first place:



... also one of the window winders works properly now (packers1712 had a spare omega clip).

That's a lot better Alan!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by packers1712

When Delores mate Mr Roberts!

Doug.

... Super photo!

Many thanks for the omega clip - the passenger's side door winder works fine now :-)

Alan

[c1800]

“ I did notice the oil level was a bit high when I collected the car, and paid not much notice to it. I'll check that (suck a little bit out if necessary)”

Or just change the oil, and filter, then you know what you have.