1800: 1972 pv1800es

[Othen]

Delores has moved from being stored in a fairly remote barn to a well appointed domestic garage for the rest of the winter. It is much easier to monitor (and use) the motor car there. The good news is that 'Lizabeth (AKA 'Janet') reports that the oil leak under the engine/gearbox has stopped. It looks like some combination of changing the cork gasket under the rocker box cover, the rubber seal on the filler cap and the Barr's fluid has fixed the issue without having to take things apart.

The final part of this jigsaw will be to swap to 20W50 mineral oil when the motor car is serviced in the spring.

:-)

[142 Guy]

Originally Posted by Othen

The final part of this jigsaw will be to swap to 20W50 mineral oil when the motor car is serviced in the spring.

:-)

For your consideration.

If Janet habitually does seasonal oil changes (lighter weight oil in cold weather) or doesn't plan to drive the car in temperatures below 10 C, 20W50 probably works just fine. Once temperatures approach 0 C 20W50 conventional oils get pretty sludge like. That makes starting difficult and although the oil pressure gauge will register lots of pressure on start up, actual oil flow to the bearings is not so great.

I drive my 142 E up to the point that the snow stays so driving in -10C would not be unusual in late October. I run a 5W50 full synthetic year around. The 5W makes cold starts easier and insures good oil flow to the bearings on start up. Full synthetic is more expensive; but, it eliminates the seasonal change and given that I don't drive the car a lot and with a rebuilt engine it does not consume oil, it hasn't been a problem running 2 years between changes. Synthetics have a greater resistance to sludge formation and deposits allowing the extended change interval.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by 142 Guy

For your consideration.

If Janet habitually does seasonal oil changes (lighter weight oil in cold weather) or doesn't plan to drive the car in temperatures below 10 C, 20W50 probably works just fine. Once temperatures approach 0 C 20W50 conventional oils get pretty sludge like. That makes starting difficult and although the oil pressure gauge will register lots of pressure on start up, actual oil flow to the bearings is not so great.

I drive my 142 E up to the point that the snow stays so driving in -10C would not be unusual in late October. I run a 5W50 full synthetic year around. The 5W makes cold starts easier and insures good oil flow to the bearings on start up. Full synthetic is more expensive; but, it eliminates the seasonal change and given that I don't drive the car a lot and with a rebuilt engine it does not consume oil, it hasn't been a problem running 2 years between changes. Synthetics have a greater resistance to sludge formation and deposits allowing the extended change interval.

Some very good points there, one being you've rebuilt your engine and have only run it on synthetic cince new. The molecules in synthetic oils tend to be smaller than their mineral counterparts which can encourage leaks and/or burning on cars with engines that have never been rebuilt and run since new on mineral 20W50 say.

Also in the UK, the climate is much warmer (although at only about 3C here today it doesn't feel it!) so a 5Wxx multigrade is probably a bit too thin for us and again, would encourage leaks/burning.

There is also the argument on a car used mainly for short journeys that the condensation produced when started/while cold doesn't get burned off and contaminates the oil with an acidic mix so even with synthetic, it's probably wise to change the oil at least once a year, regardless of mileage.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by 142 Guy

For your consideration.

If Janet habitually does seasonal oil changes (lighter weight oil in cold weather) or doesn't plan to drive the car in temperatures below 10 C, 20W50 probably works just fine. Once temperatures approach 0 C 20W50 conventional oils get pretty sludge like. That makes starting difficult and although the oil pressure gauge will register lots of pressure on start up, actual oil flow to the bearings is not so great.

I drive my 142 E up to the point that the snow stays so driving in -10C would not be unusual in late October. I run a 5W50 full synthetic year around. The 5W makes cold starts easier and insures good oil flow to the bearings on start up. Full synthetic is more expensive; but, it eliminates the seasonal change and given that I don't drive the car a lot and with a rebuilt engine it does not consume oil, it hasn't been a problem running 2 years between changes. Synthetics have a greater resistance to sludge formation and deposits allowing the extended change interval.

Thank you for that - some very good points and well worth consideration.

It hardly ever gets to -10C here in the UK (maybe once a decade, and then not for long, indeed this year we have probably only had a dozen frosty morns). As Dave says above, 5W50 is a bit thin for our climate, particularly in a 50 year old motor.

I changed my 244 (B21a engine) to 20W50 (from 10W40 semi synthetic) a few years ago with entirely positive results. As with Janet's motor car I do quite a low mileage in the RB (about 3000 miles/year), but I do use it as a more or less daily driver for local trips. Janet tends to use Delores less frequently, but when she does it tends to be for longer journeys.

I change the oil every year in all my older cars (and will do the same with Delores); I am convinced that the key to longevity for gas engines is frequent oil changes - cheap oil is fine as long as it is changed often.

Best wishes,

Alan

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Some very good points there, one being you've rebuilt your engine and have only run it on synthetic cince new. The molecules in synthetic oils tend to be smaller than their mineral counterparts which can encourage leaks and/or burning on cars with engines that have never been rebuilt and run since new on mineral 20W50 say.

Also in the UK, the climate is much warmer (although at only about 3C here today it doesn't feel it!) so a 5Wxx multigrade is probably a bit too thin for us and again, would encourage leaks/burning.

There is also the argument on a car used mainly for short journeys that the condensation produced when started/while cold doesn't get burned off and contaminates the oil with an acidic mix so even with synthetic, it's probably wise to change the oil at least once a year, regardless of mileage.

This is a useful discussion Dave. See above, I think 5W50 is a bit thin for the UK's climate - I shouldn't think it has been lower than -3C at all this winter.

My experience with the RB (as you know a B21a engine) and 20W50 mineral oil has been entirely positive. I know the B18e motor is a generation older, but the bottom ends are not all that dissimilar. I'll try 20W50 in Delores when I service it in the spring and see if it cures that last vestige of an oil leak (it was like the Torrey Canyon when Janet first bought it!).

Alan

PS. GAM has been running on 20W50 mineral oil for at least the period of David's ownership (it even came with a tin in the boot). I was planning to continue with the same.

[142 Guy]

A couple of points.

5W50 will not be 'thin' for the UK's climate. Under hot test conditions 20W50 and 5W50 will display approximately the same viscosity. That is what the 50 rating is all about. The difference will be at low temperatures where the 20 in the 20W50 rating may cause it to look more like Marmite versus the 5W50 which will flow better. If cold weather operation is not a significant issue then 20W50 will do the trick.

The blend of molecules making up a synthetic are not necessarily smaller than conventional oils; but, there may be a problem with lack of seal swell. I do know that when Mobil 1 was first introduced, oil leakage from neoprene / silicone crank seals was not uncommon on engines switched from conventional to synthetic because the seals shrunk. The synthetic lacked whatever caused the seals to swell. As far as I am aware, that is not an issue with modern synthetic oils and probably would not be an issue if you are running the OEM felt seals.

As a related observation, conventional motor oils get their extended viscosity index by the addition of Viscosity Index Improvers. Viscosity Index Improvers deteriorate / loose their effectiveness with age. Both 20W50 and 10W40 wide viscosity index conventional motor oil require more VI than conventional 10W30 or 5W20 so your more regular replacement of 20W50 is a good idea. Synthetics are a different can of chemistry.

[Othen]

One of the jobs I’d been meaning to get round to on Delores was fitting some door check straps/stops - to stop the doors closing against my leg whenever I drive the motorcar - they are missing on both sides.

It looks like Brookhouse Volvo stocks the parts (B664256), but it isn’t obvious how they fit. Perhaps someone with a similar car (1972 P1800ES) would post a photo of the fitted check strap inside the door jamb so I could work out what I need and how to put it together?

Alan

[john.wigley]

'Morning, Alan,

Had been wondering what had happened to 'Delores' (and also her owner, 'Janet')! It is good to know that they are still around and the car remains in your care. Is it really three years since you started looking after and improving that lovely motor car?! Will we see it and / or GAM at the 'National' this year?

Regards, John.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

'Morning, Alan,

Had been wondering what had happened to 'Delores' (and also her owner, 'Janet')! It is good to know that they are still around and the car remains in your care. Is it really three years since you started looking after and improving that lovely motor car?! Will we see it and / or GAM at the 'National' this year?

Regards, John.

Hi John,

Yes, Delores is still around. Unfortunately ’Janet’ (AKA: SW) has a shoulder injury that makes Delores very hard for her to drive, it having no PAS. The deal is I take Delores out for a spin about once per month to keep the battery charged and things turning over. Delores is garaged in the meantime and I’m pleased to say is faring well. I’ve attached a nice photo of Delores from a recent maintenance spin.

It is coming up to annual service time for Delores (although it has probably only done a few hundred miles since the last one) and I’m starting to look at my list of outstanding improvements required. The door stops are a bit annoying in that the driver’s door traps my leg frequently. I must also have a look at the driver’s window regulator (the winder won’t raise the window the last few inches) and the driver’s seat belt, which has been poorly repaired in the past.

It seem’s unlikely that SW’s shoulder will ever recover sufficiently for her to really enjoy driving Delores again, so there is an idea that I may purchase the motor car once I’m settled in ‘Vegas and have had a second garage, as well as a carport, constructed. I quite like this concept: Delores is a nice motor car that just needs a little attention to finish off an otherwise excellent restoration. At the moment I only have Delores for its annual service, which is never enough time to do all the improvement jobs on my list, but if I owned it I’d get them completed quickly. I quite like the idea of two older Volvos (GAM is staying of course), as long as I can generate enough garage space to look after them (and my motorcycles) properly.

So, watch this space. I had a builder round to look at extending the existing garage at ‘Vegas (to a 2 1/2 car size) last week, and I’ve ordered a stand-alone timber carport kit to erect in the back garden. If those two projects come to fruition before October then I’ll probably buy Delores and finish it properly as my winter project.

Regarding this year’s national rally: I don’t think I’ll be in a position to attend as I’d only just have finished moving to ‘Vegas (6 June). Maybe next year though, with either GAM or Delores (and Bob of course).

Alan