Michelin CrossClimates

[Familyman 90]

Originally Posted by Lexman8

Yes, it's time to start the annual winter tyre discussion/debate/argument/war.

I fitted CrossClimates a few months ago to replace the summer 19" Pirellis that came with the car. Having done several hundred miles now I'd say they are good tyres but probably more of a compromise than I expected.

I'm not an 'enthusiastic' driver by any means but even I have noticed how squidgy (that's an engineering term) the steering feels and how less planted the car feels on the road. On the plus side, the ride is slightly more comfortable - softer and more floaty (another engineering term). It'll be an advantage not having to swap wheels twice per year. As for cabin noise, there is a slight reduction compared to the Pirellis but less than the official EU drive-by figures would suggest and they are noisier than the Continental winter tyres I've been using up until now.

Obviously I've not been able to try them in snow yet but looking at the tread pattern they won't be as good as the Continental winters - which is to be expected. In particular, there are far fewer sipes on the CrossClimates for gripping snow so it'll be interesting to see how well they perform. They'll probably be fine 90% of the time in the UK unless you live in the (far) north and/or in a hilly or mountainous area.

I've driven a fair amount in the Alps most winters (except the last two obviously) with 'proper' winter tyres. Although the CrossClimates have the 3PMSF symbol I'm not sure I'd trust them to cope with the worst Alpine conditions. Anyway, I've decided not to drive again to the Alps in winter so I've sold the Continental winters and will rely on the CrossClimates for the 'extreme' conditions here in Yorkshire.

I wasn't massively impressed by Cross Climates myself. Prior to that I had Nokian Weatherproof boots on mine and they were better in the snow, and slightly better in the dry. Of course, how a tyre performs can change significantly with tyre size, but on 255/50 19's I felt the Nokians were just a bit better all round.

Now on Hankook Kinergy 4S2's, and straight away theyre quieter than the Cross Climates, a little more stable in the dry and much better in the wet. I cannot comment about snow performance as yet. Again, a different car with different boot sizes may respond differently, so you can only go by your own experience and preferences.

[bornmiddleaged]

Surely the point of Crossclimates (and other all season tyres) is that you just leave them on year round, unless, perhaps, you are definitely going to be driving in some serious snow?

Anyway, I swapped from 20" wheels with the Pirelli P-zero to 18" with the Crossclimate+ and I would agree with the original poster on the "squidginess" factor.
However, on balance, I prefer the increased comfort on the 18s instead of crashing over every pothole and expansion joint etc in the 20s, but I imagine this would have been the case when swapping to smaller wheels, regardless of the tyres.

The one thing I have noticed is the dry braking is worse in the CCs - I definitely have to apply noticeably more brake pedal pressure to stop in the same distance. This was mentioned in at least one of the reviews but I didn't really expect to actually notice as I am also not a particularly spirited driver.

In terms of cabin noise, they are slightly quieter on smooth roads, but rough roads (esp. concrete bits of motorway) can produce what I can only describe as a droning sound at around 60mph. Solution - go faster!

[sk546]

There is no one tyre that can actually do it all, regardless of what tyre manufacturers say, every tyre is compromised is some circumstance due to either rubber compound, tread pattern, tyre construction (the list goes on and on...) so all we can do is try and choose the best tyre for the conditions you drive and how you like to drive.
A cross climate (or any all season tyre) will never have the dry grip, braking or cornering ability of a dedicated summer/performance tyre and likewise, a summer tyre will not handle wintery conditions anywhere near as well as an all season or winter tyre.

Due to the rubber compound and size of tread blocks on a Michelin CrossClimate tyre, they will always feel more 'squidgy' than a summer tyre as you cant change physics.
All you can do is choose a tyre that meets the driving conditions you experience or that perform how you want it to and accept that it wont always be the right tyre for the conditions you find yourself in.

Me personally, I prefer the solid feeling and grip the standard fit Pirelli P-Zero PZ2 Ultra High Performance summer tyres my car has on and accept that they don't perform well in the winter. They do, however, have very good wet weather grip which is pretty handy in the UK.

[Bonefishblues]

Hankooks here too. Am something of a fan having used AS and full winters and been really pleased with both

[bluebarchetta]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3WssIxusLU

A useful review here of the latest all seasons tyres

[Familyman 90]

Originally Posted by sk546

Due to the rubber compound and size of tread blocks on a Michelin CrossClimate tyre, they will always feel more 'squidgy' than a summer tyre as you cant change physics.

But then the conventional OE Pirellis feel remote and vague in the wet, and the Cross Climates do not.

Conventional 'summer' tyres are also a compromise in anything but dry, mild or warm weather. The moment it gets too hot, too cold, or wet and snowy, they are pretty poor, so your criticism can be equally levelled at them.

The reality is that modern all weather boots are very good, and operate well in a wider range of conditions than conventional summer tyres, which only function well in dry and mild conditions.

You makes your choice.

[sk546]

Originally Posted by Familyman 90

Conventional 'summer' tyres are also a compromise in anything but dry, mild or warm weather. The moment it gets too hot, too cold, or wet and snowy, they are pretty poor, so your criticism can be equally levelled at them.

No criticism from me on any specific tyre, if you actually read my comments I say all tyres are compromised at some stage depending on the conditions they are operated in.
I was merely trying to explain why the CrossClimate feels 'squidgy' and requires more brake application to provide the same stopping feel in the dry when compared to a traditional summer tyre.

Not sure which OE Pirelli's you have had the remote and vague wet weather experience with but the P-Zero PZ2's my Polestar Engineered are excellent in the wet for the class of tyre they are, multiple professional tyre tests also say the same about them so its not just a matter of my opinion.

Like you say though, you make your own choice and my choice is to have better dry weather performance with very acceptable wet weather drive-ability but thats just me. Everyone has different priorities where tyres are concerned.

[gaby]

Originally Posted by Familyman 90

The reality is that modern all weather boots are very good, and operate well in a wider range of conditions than conventional summer tyres, which only function well in dry and mild conditions.

The german ADAC "reifentests" seem to come to a somewhat different conclusion:
https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/tests/reifen/

[Wagon Sailor]

Yes, "all-weather boots" do work reasonably well in a wider range of conditions than do summer or winter tyres, but they are almost by definition a compromise. The German practice of using two sets of wheels gives the optimum.
Winter tyres aren't just for grip in snow; they're also able to work well at lower temperatures, something summer tyres can't do.

There is an alternative, but you probably have to be old: learn to drive on something from the 1950s wearing skinny crossplies.

[Chrisaaaaa]

I have gone cross climate too.

I used to keep an extra set of tyres so I could swap at home, and genuine wheels, same size tyres, no nonsense from the insurance companies needing to know about modifications.

The big drawback is the 2 sets of winter tyres still in my garage for previous cars, they are hard to sell on.