Suspension: 850: Switching back from coilovers - parts needed?

[CNGBiFuel]

How you do, or don't wave your willy is entirely for you. Bazifficated tosh or not, I know why I want them... send 'em down. On an old man's barge they'd amuse me.

[Rich850R]

Originally Posted by CNGBiFuel

How you do, or don't wave your willy is entirely for you. Bazifficated tosh or not, I know why I want them... send 'em down. On an old man's barge they'd amuse me.

What a strange reply.

[RollingThunder]

Guys, as much as I agree with much of what both of you usually say, I think this is going off at a tangent. The OP asked -

Originally Posted by dahamsta

What parts would I need to switch from coilovers back to standard shocks and springs, i.e. what would have been taken off when the coilovers were fitted?

I think we'd be more helpful returning to the original question

[foggyjames]

There's an interesting point lurking in the background of this, somewhere. I saw a "meme" recently which featured a Japanese businessman saying "You improved the suspension we at Honda spent £50m developing using £500 parts from eBay. You're an engineering genius! There's a job waiting for you in Japan!".

I think it's pretty easy to improve the performance of a given component in a particular manner. My 343 is now far more capable on a track than it was in its factory condition. However, the ride comfort is appalling, and I'm fairly certain it's actually slower on a bumpy back-road than it was when it was standard.

The difficult part in all of this is balancing "performance" vs NVH vs component lifespan, etc. That's where they spend the money. I once spent an hour or so chatting to a suspension design engineer who works for Nissan over dinner. It was a pretty interesting conversation, coming at it from an enthusiast perspective!

cheers

James

[acshortt5]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

There's an interesting point lurking in the background of this, somewhere. I saw a "meme" recently which featured a Japanese businessman saying "You improved the suspension we at Honda spent £50m developing using £500 parts from eBay. You're an engineering genius! There's a job waiting for you in Japan!".

I think it's pretty easy to improve the performance of a given component in a particular manner. My 343 is now far more capable on a track than it was in its factory condition. However, the ride comfort is appalling, and I'm fairly certain it's actually slower on a bumpy back-road than it was when it was standard.

The difficult part in all of this is balancing "performance" vs NVH vs component lifespan, etc. That's where they spend the money. I once spent an hour or so chatting to a suspension design engineer who works for Nissan over dinner. It was a pretty interesting conversation, coming at it from an enthusiast perspective!

cheers

James

I've been saying for ages that it's always a compromise. You also get what you pay for as well. The ride comfort in my mx5 with (mid range) coilovers & pillowball top mounts is actually better than the volvo, apart from ground clearance over speedbumps...

I've driven a variety of cars inc. FWD, RWD and 4WD and these cars (for the big heavy barges they are) handle quite well out of the box (pun intended) if everything is in good nick. Yes they understeer but only when you push on quite hard and they are forgiving if you mess up.

Personally I think you can make more of an improvement handling wise with the tyres, going wider and better quality, than messing with the suspension. The T5's really should have come with at least 215 wide tyres like the R's IMO.

I think what happens is people replace old worn out parts with shiny new upgrade parts and subsequently claim a massive improvement which of course you will get anyway as the old bits were knackered and you would have seen a big improvement if you'd changed like for like.

Having the choice is a good thing though as it lets people alter things to how they like it.

Clearly the manufacturers have other priorities with finding something that will work, in a wide range of countries with different climates, that will last just over the warranty period and is cheap enough to keep the accountants happy.

[CNGBiFuel]

I think what happens is people replace old worn out parts with shiny new upgrade parts and subsequently claim a massive improvement which of course you will get anyway as the old bits were knackered and you would have seen a big improvement if you'd changed like for like.

That made me smile, it's so, so true. My favourite is the bloke with the vastly improved brakes. He's swapped old blown-out de-laminated factory brake-hoses with "Aahh Bisto" running thru' them, and a seized caliper, for shiny-braided ("ferma pidol innit") hose, with 'race parts' and get this... wonder of wonders, fresh fluid.

Or the car that goes slighty faster, only you'd not want to sit in the thing for more than five minutes.

[dahamsta]

Originally Posted by Rich850R

Should bin my AP's with 328mm J-hook Rotors then and saved a shed load of money in the process

Lucky bastard. I don't think they can be had any more, I certainly couldn't find any.

Originally Posted by RollingThunder

Guys, as much as I agree with much of what both of you usually say, I think this is going off at a tangent.

I missed a day and came back to a load of lectures and off-topic chat, gave up on the thread. Decided on a safe option of Eibach springs and B4 Bilsteins in the end, but yes, I still don't have an answer to my main question. I've ordered them, I'll just have to wait until they get here, compare them to VIDA, hope I can pick up the differences, send it to my mechanic, wait for him to find the ones I inevitably missed, order the missing parts, wait for them, etc. Great.

And for the record, to those lecturing that the original can not be improved on, well, that's just a load of old tosh. People are allowed to want their cars to handle in different ways, or sit different ways.

[CNGBiFuel]

And for the record, to those lecturing that the original can not be improved on, well, that's just a load of old tosh.

No one in this thread says it can't be improved. Of course it can be changed to suit an owner's use.. Read what was actually said.

People are allowed to want their cars to handle in different ways, or sit different ways.

And that is what we've said. Put the 'right' amount of money, time and effort into this, and over the compromise set as 'factory' for thousands of us, you'll get the compromise with its bias set for one person, you.

[dahamsta]

Originally Posted by CNGBiFuel

No one in this thread says it can't be improved. Of course it can be changed to suit an owner's use.. Read what was actually said.

The responses were useful until the 4th post, which completely derailed the thread. Your post, in fact.

As with many mods, you're hard set to improve on something factory-developed if you don't intend to spend a lot more than is viable. Doing your own R&D is never going to be cheap.

Buying a set of Eibach springs and B4 shocks is almost certainly cheaper than stock on an estate, because of the nivomats; I'm not even sure you can buy nivomats any more. It's probably the same or not far off OEM springs and dampers; and you can go cheaper than Eibach and B4s in the aftermarket. All of that is aside from the fact that your "improvement" isn't necessarily mine. As I already said.

And no-one does R&D on a set of aftermarket springs and dampers, apart from professional racers. Unless you call coming on a forum to ask questions R&D. And being sidelined by "purists" that know better, taking your thread off-topic.

It's an open forum, you can chat about anything you want, wherever you want, with whoever you want, I have no control over that. But it would be nice if you waved your "engineering know how" penis around on someone else's thread, thanks all the same.

I certainly won't be replying to you again, here or anywhere else. I have no interest in talking to someone so arrogant and self-aggrandising.

[foggyjames]

FWIW, Bilstein market their B4s as "OEM replacements". I would assume that they've measured originals on a damper 'dyno' and/or had them apart to inspect the valving. I've used B4s on various cars over the years, and always been very pleased with the results.

I need to put together new front struts for my P3 V70. I'll be going for B4 dampers, but the only Eibach springs I can find are for cars with "Sports" suspension, and I like my motorway car to be armchair-spec. I'll get a price for OEM.

cheers

James