Are xc90 brakes generally poor.

[Techdiver]

I have an xc90 2011 replaced all calipers discs with vented and drilled disc and yellow pads. I did this as last car was kia Sorento and upgraded the brakes as I tow a caravan. I also had a ford kuga 4x4 that has fantastic brakes. Volvo they work but not what I would call good. Anyone any ideas how to upgrade to give great brakes.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

There's a big difference between "working" and "working well". Fit an XC90 with some Apec or National crap and it still start and stop and pass an MOT.

You get what you pay for - fit a £120 set of discs and pads and you will get broadly half the quality you get from a £250 set of genuine Volvo ones. If you keep the car a long time (and most XC90 owners do) you will get to know that genuine "consumable" parts significantly outlast and/or perform better most pattern parts - from wiper blades to wheel bearings, bulbs to brakes.

The joke is people with champagne premium car aspirations but on a Tesco Value Cola budget. These are not cheap cars to buy, maintain and run. That's a plan that usually doesn't end well, there are other cars better suited to that style of ownership.

The parking brake is the same design used on all Volvo models from the 850 in 1992 until the Ford based platforms that started in 2007. The problem with it is lack of use on cars with automatic transmissions, and that's 96% of XC90's.

well said ... I agree 100% from my 45 years working with all volvos on a professional basis. people don't want to listen though do they...
It is illegal to leave a car parked without a parking brake on as both rear wheels are NOT locked they are completely free to rotate in opposite directions. One of them will slip and rotate backwards as the car slides down on an icy, muddy or a leafy wet hill . I've seen It all before.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by Techdiver

I have an xc90 2011 replaced all calipers discs with vented and drilled disc and yellow pads. I did this as last car was kia Sorento and upgraded the brakes as I tow a caravan. I also had a ford kuga 4x4 that has fantastic brakes. Volvo they work but not what I would call good. Anyone any ideas how to upgrade to give great brakes.

what are great brakes? Can you get the ABS to work on a dry road ?

[dambat]

My 2008 is very sensitive to poor fluid quality. I try to flush every 2 years (but more like 3) and it makes a big difference.
I have good brakes and can activate the ABS on a dry road, but it's fairly violent to do so. Aftermarket pads all round (Bendix).
As everyone else has noted, the park brake is poor.

[XC90Mk1]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

The joke for me is you rock up on here, which unlike some other similar forums is well run and generally very well mannered and has contributing members trying to help other owners get the best out of their cars. Some members are very experienced engineers, there are also several dealer mechanics some with 40+ years experience - you cannot get experience like that anywhere else and I am not talking about any specific member or myself - there’s lots on every section. Anyway you ask what is quite a common question and then say the advice given is a joke... presumably because you don’t like it or it wasn’t the simple answer you were hoping for?

I come back to at 2.25 tons the XC90 is hard on front brakes. Unusually Volvo make their own disc and the pads are made for the under contract to their spec and hence you cannot buy them any other way other than from Volvo. The motor trade is littered with cheap poor quality pattern parts at the moment and a lot of the pattern brake parts for Volvo’s whilst will work to a point - do not match Volvo’s own. Some are better than others and I think people who fit ATE and Pagid have had good results but for the best performance and life - you will only get that from genuine Volvo. No other brand of pads are the same as Volvo just as Tesco’s ketchup isn’t the same as Heinz.... and never will be.

I’m assuming you don’t want to buy 3 sets of different manufacturer parts and spend a whole weekend swapping them over to see which work well, you just want it sorting with them minimum effort and you want good brake feel, right?

I have serviced my XC90 using genuine parts from Eastbourne Volvo. Oil change each 6 months or 6,000 miles. Everyone comes on to tell you the ‘secret’ that it’s Mann filter and castrol oil. They don’t like it when you tell them the ‘secret’ is that the oil, filter, washer and delivery from Volvo is cheaper than the pattern parts they use!

My front pads lasted 50,000 miles. I only changed them as they were squeezing so I ordered new pads given that I was going to the efforts of stripping the front calipers off the car and cleaning/greasing the slide pins etc.

Brand new Volvo discs, pads, and screw sets for the calipers delivered were under £200 from Volvo.

Now… I sure others will tel me that you can get it of eBay for £80. However I now know I can go and drive 65,000 miles over 5 years and not look at them.

I imagine the eBay goers will probably be on at least their second set if not third by then!

So that’s In reality 1 set of Volvo brakes and £200 or 2-3 sets of eBay carp and £160-£240!

[Tannaton]

Wow - someone's had a defibrillator to this thread !

Originally Posted by Techdiver

I have an xc90 2011 replaced all calipers discs with vented and drilled disc and yellow pads. I did this as last car was kia Sorento and upgraded the brakes as I tow a caravan. I also had a ford kuga 4x4 that has fantastic brakes. Volvo they work but not what I would call good. Anyone any ideas how to upgrade to give great brakes.

If you're going towing the best thing you can do is fit genuine Volvo brake discs and pads at least at the front, and preferably at the back as well. There are Volvo dealers who sell these parts at trade prices on e-bay.

Front : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190464431...UAAMXQHxVRhOfJ

Rear : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190464434...QAAMXQvTlRhJjQ

For their bigger XC models at least, including the older ones dating back to the early 2000's, Volvo still cast their own brake discs - you cannot buy the quality or consistency anywhere else. If you buy a set - you will find their stamped Volvo (not ATE or Teves etc.) and are made in Sweden. Here's a set I fitted earlier....





The pads are made for them under contract by another manufacturer, but as with most products of unique intellectual property, you cannot buy them anywhere else except from Volvo's aftersales channel.

I have found many times over that whilst you can fit aftermarket discs and pads, the car will slow and stop and pass an MOT, you are much more likely to get brake judder on the front of a Mk1 XC90 with them and the brake feel and performance is never as good as with genuine parts - often by a significant margin.

The other thing which is noticeable is with genuine pads and discs, the discs constantly maintain a perfectly smooth almost mirror like finish as they wear - front or rear - with aftermarket parts in most cases the discs wear very unevenly - almost as though the pads have a serrated finish. I'm not sure whether that is due to inconsistencies in the pad material or steel in the disc - or both - but it does tell you they're nowhere near as good.

Mk 1 XC90's are now fabulous value, a superb car that cost over £40k new but thanks to depreciation of at least 10 years many cost only a tenth of that. However - the costs of servicing and replacing parts does not depreciate... Most of us on here that run and enjoy XC90's "on the cheap" do that by using genuine parts but are able to do the work ourselves, the saving is the labour rate.

[XC90Mk1]

Should mention that having gone from 65k to 125k my total repairs cost has been £57.

[foggyjames]

Picking up on Clan's point...what are "good brakes", in this context? I would suggest there are three primary variables...
1) Braking torque
2) Fade resistance
3) Pedal feel / bite

Without knowing which aspect you feel is lacking, it's hard to comment. If it's just "feel" which is the issue (and that, for example, the car will stop just fine, but perhaps with a little more pedal pressure than you like), that may well have nothing to do with the friction components, and could, for example, be down to the relationship between master cylinder and caliper piston size, and may be very difficult to change. It also doesn't necessarily mean that anything is "wrong" - that's just the way it's been designed.

I have just fitted genuine front discs and pads to my V70, but I don't agree that it has to be genuine-or-nothing for good results. I would avoid cheap brands, but I don't think you can go too far wrong with a premium brand - especially one who make other brake components themselves (ATE, Brembo, etc).

Some genuine parts are great value (clutch and flywheel kits tend to be the cheapest option there is, for example), but others are identical and just have a massive mark-up applied - diesel system components being a good example. Some other parts are available on the aftermarket with the genuine markings ground off...if you know where to look. Of course for many of us the time needed to research those sources isn't worthwhile.

cheers

James

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

I have just fitted genuine front discs and pads to my V70, but I don't agree that it has to be genuine-or-nothing for good results.

I'd just like to clarify that's not what I'm trying to say, there are several after market brands that give good results, but they're not always the ones you would expect.

My point would be if you own the car for say 70k miles you are likely only change the front discs once. Do you want to experiment with cheap brands to see which works best or just pay a little extra for guaranteed results?

[ltec]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

Picking up on Clan's point...what are "good brakes", in this context? I would suggest there are three primary variables...
1) Braking torque
2) Fade resistance
3) Pedal feel / bite

Without knowing which aspect you feel is lacking, it's hard to comment. If it's just "feel" which is the issue (and that, for example, the car will stop just fine, but perhaps with a little more pedal pressure than you like), that may well have nothing to do with the friction components, and could, for example, be down to the relationship between master cylinder and caliper piston size, and may be very difficult to change. It also doesn't necessarily mean that anything is "wrong" - that's just the way it's been designed.

I have just fitted genuine front discs and pads to my V70, but I don't agree that it has to be genuine-or-nothing for good results. I would avoid cheap brands, but I don't think you can go too far wrong with a premium brand - especially one who make other brake components themselves (ATE, Brembo, etc).

Some genuine parts are great value (clutch and flywheel kits tend to be the cheapest option there is, for example), but others are identical and just have a massive mark-up applied - diesel system components being a good example. Some other parts are available on the aftermarket with the genuine markings ground off...if you know where to look. Of course for many of us the time needed to research those sources isn't worthwhile.

cheers

James

You are correct, the initial post of mine a long time ago was actually down to pedal feel and the amount of pressure needed compared to the effort of other similar vehicles.
On the mot rollers the brakes efficiently was very high.
Actual foot brake efficiency for xc90s has never been an mot problem and usually performs high compared to some. Aftermarket discs has no effect on the efficiency and they perform fairly well compared to others like a defender that bearly reaches whats required. It also helps thats the xc90 brakes have to be tested each wheel singly.
The efficiency problem they do have is the park brake which is always a nightmare and the worst park brake ever made. Ask any mot examiner for proof of that.
Firstly Aftermarket parts is blamed for the problem and then if its genuine parts people sitting with their foot on the brake is blamed for warped discs and crap park brakes but its just lame excuses for volvo. People sitting with their foot on the brake and not using park brake enough is the same for other manufacturers but they don't have these problems.
Most manufacturers can nearly double the expected park brake effort for mot on any brand of brakes but volvo struggle to reach the required 16%.