240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[john.wigley]

I've been following your discussion above with interest, Alan, and am inclined to agree with your conclusions. Having owned and run carburettor and injection fed examples of both 2 and 7 series cars, I feel there is little to chose between them in day to day driving.

Carb diaphragms failed (always carried a spare) and the underfloor pump mentioned by 'L.S.' could be a real PITA (we had more than one fail - not a cheap fix). Carbs tended to be a little less economical (~10%) due to less accurate fuelling, and we much preferred a manual choke to an automatic one (better control and less to go wrong).

On balance, I think that you are right; your bike experience is a valuable bonus.

Regards, John.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

I've been following your discussion above with interest, Alan, and am inclined to agree with your conclusions. Having owned and run carburettor and injection fed examples of both 2 and 7 series cars, I feel there is little to chose between them in day to day driving.

Carb diaphragms failed (always carried a spare) and the underfloor pump mentioned by 'L.S.' could be a real PITA (we had more than one fail - not a cheap fix). Carbs tended to be a little less economical (~10%) due to less accurate fuelling, and we much preferred a manual choke to an automatic one (better control and less to go wrong).

On balance, I think that you are right; your bike experience is a valuable bonus.

Regards, John.

Many thanks John,

This is another very good discussion, I am learning all the time. Just today I have found out so much about the CI system, not just about how it works (fairly simple) but about current supply problems with critical components. What has put my off more than anything was finding an Australian K-Jet specialist selling reconditioned warm up regulators for AU$750 (about £400). The K-Jet system seems to be full of special items like that, few of which seem to be available. That tells me two things:

a. Fitting a complex system full of special parts that are no longer available would make little sense.

b. The complete, working K-Jet that I will inherit with the B230 motor will be worth quite a lot to someone else (or perhaps as spares for Delores).

Whilst I have heard the B230e start and run, I cannot vouch for all those components working properly - maybe the cold start jet was fine on a 30c July afternoon, but would cost me £200 for a new one when needed on that freezing January morning? I don't know.

Anyway, the Pierburg CV type single carburettor with a manual choke and a mechanical fuel pump is entirely within my comfort zone. I've worked on dozens of similar units on bikes and cars; they are all trivially simple to tune and there are very few parts to go wrong. I'm about 95% sure the B21a manifold will just bolt on with identical gaskets, and the DVG 175 CDUS was actually fitted to a B230 motor. The Pierburg was also used on many other motor cars (notably VW and MB), so there is an tuning market for jets etc.

As you will know, this part of the project is about extending the RB's life for perhaps another 20 years, it is not a performance upgrade and those 21 extra horses will not matter to me. What is important is that I can complete the project - and that is about minimising risk and cost. My assessment is that a K-Jet solution would be both risky and costly compared with a single carburettor that I know works.

This has been an interesting discussion, but now I'm 99% certain I'll take the B230a route.

:-)

[Othen]

I found this information on the VOC website:



So, the B230a and B230e are contemporaries from 1984 on. The 'e' version makes a bit more power, but at higher revolutions, torque is near identical but again the carburettor version achieves it at lower engine speed.

I think the B230a's characteristics are going to suit the RB well, particularly with a 4 speed gearbox.

:-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

b. The complete, working K-Jet that I will inherit with the B230 motor will be worth quite a lot to someone else (or perhaps as spares for Delores).[/INDENT]
Whilst I have heard the B230e start and run, I cannot vouch for all those components working properly - maybe the cold start jet was fine on a 30c July afternoon, but would cost me £200 for a new one when needed on that freezing January morning? I don't know.

Anyway, the Pierburg CV type single carburettor with a manual choke and a mechanical fuel pump is entirely within my comfort zone. I've worked on dozens of similar units on bikes and cars; they are all trivially simple to tune and there are very few parts to go wrong. I'm about 95% sure the B21a manifold will just bolt on with identical gaskets, and the DVG 175 CDUS was actually fitted to a B230 motor. The Pierburg was also used on many other motor cars (notably VW and MB), so there is an tuning market for jets etc.

As you will know, this part of the project is about extending the RB's life for perhaps another 20 years, it is not a performance upgrade and those 21 extra horses will not matter to me. What is important is that I can complete the project - and that is about minimising risk and cost. My assessment is that a K-Jet solution would be both risky and costly compared with a single carburettor that I know works.

This has been an interesting discussion, but now I'm 99% certain I'll take the B230a route.

:-)

None of the K-Jetronic stuff will be compatible with Dolores' D-Jetronic Electronic Fuel Injection set up Alan. All completely different!

If you are going down the carb route, please consider a Weber twin choke upgrade (the Webcon conversion) as that is far more reliable and easier to tune than the Pierbug.

The K-Jet is much simpler than you seem to think, i get the impression you're over-thinking and therefore overcomplicating it in your mind. Be that as it may, the Aussie reconditioner of certain K-Jet parts has a captive audience - the laws of supply and demand come into play.

I agree keeping the RB on a carb keeps it more original, you may find when you remove the fuel pump blank the auxiliary shaft no longer has the cam for the petrol pump so it might be easier all round to fit a simple, LP pump for the carb.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

None of the K-Jetronic stuff will be compatible with Dolores' D-Jetronic Electronic Fuel Injection set up Alan. All completely different!

If you are going down the carb route, please consider a Weber twin choke upgrade (the Webcon conversion) as that is far more reliable and easier to tune than the Pierbug.

The K-Jet is much simpler than you seem to think, i get the impression you're over-thinking and therefore overcomplicating it in your mind. Be that as it may, the Aussie reconditioner of certain K-Jet parts has a captive audience - the laws of supply and demand come into play.

I agree keeping the RB on a carb keeps it more original, you may find when you remove the fuel pump blank the auxiliary shaft no longer has the cam for the petrol pump so it might be easier all round to fit a simple, LP pump for the carb.

Ah ha! Thank you for that information about Delores being D-Jet.

I did think about the Webcon conversion Dave (see above), but the new parts work out at £730 - which is more than I want to pay. I'm not sure what would be unreliable or hard to tune about a single CV carburettor Dave, I've used dozens of these (mostly on bikes, but in principle the same as the SUs on GAM). There are so few moving parts that there isn't much to go wrong, and once set up there aren't many things to get out of tune.

Mr Volvo having removed the fuel pump cam is a risk I suppose, but probably an unlikely one in that the 'a' and 'e' motors were manufactured simultaneously and are otherwise pretty similar. If I do find there is no cam I'll either have to swap the auxiliary shaft or fit an electric pump. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

:-)

PS. You had me a bit worried about the fuel pump cam on the auxiliary shaft Dave, so I went looking for a picture of one and found this for a B230 for sale on US eBay:



... it is the right part number (8250107) and fits all models between 1975 and 1993, and most importantly has the fuel pump cam!!!

[Othen]

Gosh it was hot yesterday! Costa del Corby was more like Mazotos in July. The temperature in the shade was reported to reach 40c, and the driveway surface I measured at 55c!
It was a day to stay in so Dan, Bob and myself stayed in until the evening - hence so many posts on the forum yesterday.
Today seems back to normal, we had a good amount of rain last night and it is much fresher now.
:-)

[Othen]

I've just acquired this nice B230 motor to replace the slightly tired B21a in the RB, it is out of the donor motor car now and I'll collect it tomorrow:



I could spend another £720 on a twin choke Weber kit, lower the suspension, improve the brakes... or I could just fit the RB's single Peirburg carburettor and leave everything else original. I don't think the RB will particularly be worth any more after the engine swap, so the project budget is just £500, minus anything I can recoup from selling the K-Jetronic system (quite a bit I think) the BW55 transmission and a pile of other stuff I'll have left over. I'm hoping it will be about cost neutral.

The project is underway... how exciting!

:-)

[Moomoo]

At first glance it doesn’t look like a neglected lump, does it.

Insist on a £1 , luckmoney , refund. 👍🧐

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Moomoo

At first glance it doesn’t look like a neglected lump, does it.

Insist on a £1 , luckmoney , refund. 👍🧐

It looks like it has been quite well carefully looked after Andrew, as far as I can tell 127,000 miles, starts and runs.

I don't believe in luck Andrew :-)

[Laird Scooby]

All ready to just swap into the RB, add a couple of electric pumps (LP & HP) and job done!

I know, i know, you're converting it to the Pierbug bucket for fueling but i can't argue too loudly with that as it keeps most of the originality of the RB so i have genuinely mixed feelings.

Good luck with the swap, i'm asuming (correctly i hope!) that you're renewing the timing belt while it's out and the cam oil seals etc?