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What's the problem with electric cars?

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Old Sep 17th, 2024, 17:29   #1791
Andymharrison
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Originally Posted by Mint Cake View Post
I'm not sure of how to do it, but could someone explain the cost of "filling up" a decent sized electric car with enough juice to do 100 miles at my home?
I'm on a tariff that costs me 39p KwH and i've never understood the maths of how to do it ?

My V90 R-Design diesel is easy. I'm paying £1.40 per lt, which is £6.36 per gal.
The car does 40mpg, so each mile costs me 16p - 100 miles is £16
Firstly find a better supplier if you can. We're with Octopus and pay 21p/kwh, many others will be similar.

Secondly many suppliers have tariffs that go down to something like 7p/kwh for a period during the night for car charging.

If you know the size of the battery and the range of the car you can estimate how many miles to the kwh, or how far for 7p.

We don't have off street parking so not likely to get one anytime soon, sure someone with real experience will give their figures.
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Old Sep 17th, 2024, 20:17   #1792
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Firstly find a better supplier if you can. We're with Octopus and pay 21p/kwh, many others will be similar.

Secondly many suppliers have tariffs that go down to something like 7p/kwh for a period during the night for car charging.

If you know the size of the battery and the range of the car you can estimate how many miles to the kwh, or how far for 7p.

We don't have off street parking so not likely to get one anytime soon, sure someone with real experience will give their figures.
Unfortunately I'm tied to using a commercial tariff, with no prospect whatsoever of getting on a domenstic tariff. For a commercial tariff, at the point that i signed the 3 year contract, 39p kwh was good ! (& I wasn't being shafted with a £3.50 per day standing charge)
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Old Sep 17th, 2024, 20:47   #1793
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I was looking for a typical cost for juicing up at home - I've now edited my post for clarity
There are utility companies with specific EV tariffs, I am with OVO and there charge is 7p per kWh if you charge off peak, my cost for 100 miles on this tariff is around £2.
A round trip of 162 miles cost £3.09 recently.
Hope that helps.
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Old Sep 17th, 2024, 20:52   #1794
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There are utility companies with specific EV tariffs, I am with OVO and there charge is 7p per kWh if you charge off peak, my cost for 100 miles on this tariff is around £2.
A round trip of 162 miles cost £3.09 recently.
Hope that helps.
That helps me enormously. So if you'd charged your car at my place, it would have cost £11.17 (ish), giving a cost per mile of 11p (ish).

Cheers
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Old Sep 17th, 2024, 22:39   #1795
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Originally Posted by Mint Cake View Post
Unfortunately I'm tied to using a commercial tariff, with no prospect whatsoever of getting on a domenstic tariff. For a commercial tariff, at the point that i signed the 3 year contract, 39p kwh was good ! (& I wasn't being shafted with a £3.50 per day standing charge)
May I ask why there's no prospect of going on a domestic tariff?

In other news, hearing a lot about pay-per-mile. It seems to be popping up a lot lately saying the Government are being "urged" to do it. I read an article in Birmingham Live that said it may be announced in the budget next month. That article could be a load of **** for all I know, but I reckon it'll come, its just a matter of when. I don't expect it to be announced next month though.
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Old Sep 17th, 2024, 22:54   #1796
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May I ask why there's no prospect of going on a domestic tariff?
Yes, my home is situated on the same site as my business and (due to my usage ?) and I'm deemed to be a Business user, that has to have a business account. If it's relevant, I'm on 3 phase and recently spent much ££££'s to have a 25Kv transformer installed to satisfy my requirements.

Going back to my original pence per mile question, in fairness you'd need to count (say) another 2p per mile to cover the cost of the charger point and install.
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Old Sep 17th, 2024, 23:04   #1797
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Yes, my home is situated on the same site as my business and (due to my usage ?) and I'm deemed to be a Business user, that has to have a business account. If it's relevant, I'm on 3 phase and recently spent much ££££'s to have a 25Kv transformer installed to satisfy my requirements.

Going back to my original pence per mile question, in fairness you'd need to count (say) another 2p per mile to cover the cost of the charger point and install.
Ah okay, I understand. That seems such a farce. You'd think this day and age there would be a way to differentiate the electric being used in the house and the electric being used for the business premises by separate meters. If the business is using higher electric than the house (which it would), that would be fair enough... Just have a tariff for the business and a separate one for the house. It seems so unfair that your home is subject to commercial charges, just because its on the same site as your business. Are you 100% sure that you've explored all options on this/sought advice? I'm not saying you haven't by the way, just trying to save you some money (if its even possible).

Another thing to consider with EV's (at least pure electric ones) is running costs, such as no oil changes or cam belt services. They still need to be serviced to a point, but its a lot less involved. Road tax is also free on EV's at the moment (although this is changing next year). Then there's the ULEZ compliance, which EV's are compliant with so no charges for entering those. EV's are currently free in congestion zones in London too, if that matters to you. They'll be charged in congestion areas as of December 2025 though.

Although this may not reflect so much in a per mile way, it still has to be taken into account, especially from a business perspective.
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Old Sep 17th, 2024, 23:25   #1798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mint Cake View Post
I'm not sure of how to do it, but could someone explain the cost of "filling up" a decent sized electric car with enough juice to do 100 miles at my home?
I'm on a tariff that costs me 39p KwH and i've never understood the maths of how to do it ?

My V90 R-Design diesel is easy. I'm paying £1.40 per lt, which is £6.36 per gal.
The car does 40mpg, so each mile costs me 16p - 100 miles is £16
You need to look for the miles/kWh figure for the car you're looking at. Some manufacturers provide that. Then it's pretty straight forward (100/miles figure) then you need to add ca. 10% for heat losses and losses in the charger then multiply that by your 39p/kWh

Some manufacturers quote kWh/100kms. For this (kWh/62.14)*100 Will tell you what the car will use (official, could be better could be worse depending on how you use the vehicle) you still need to add 10% for charging losses then multiply by 39p/kWh.

Having 3P electrics in the house means you can install a 22kW charger (32A 400v) and charge an EX30 with 22kW inverter in less than 3 hours from 20% to 80%.
I've got a 22kW wallbox though most cars only have 11kW inverters for AC. A 20% to 80% charge of my 64kWh battery takes around 4 hours overnight.
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Old Sep 18th, 2024, 18:29   #1799
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It can work for you if you get the charger put in and enjoy 7p pkwh, however I'm on eco7 and mine is currently 9p & 35p iirc so if I had a leccy car and had to charge in normal times it would be half what the public charger would cost plus if I didn't install the charger and just plugged it in the wall on slouch charge how long it would take to recover the charger install saving of being able to use the 7p pkwh that a full ev tariff provides, remember for me I'm already on a 2 tier meter though so for those who aren't it means you either only have one tariff or have to get the smart meter installed and perhaps at cost.
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Old Sep 18th, 2024, 20:22   #1800
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Originally Posted by SnineT View Post
Good afternoon, with all due respect I'd like you to watch the link below, this is why I'm "anti ev" as such currently, I love the idea but it's like most things mass produced and sent to market without too much thought.

I know what NCAP testing does but it's not actually relative to how a car reacts in a real crash a lot of the time, it tests deformation zones as far as they can but they use concrete blocks which the car hitting you or you hitting won't be constructed of so will have a different reaction, anyway watch the video & I hope you read my response in the best light as it's genuine concern and in no way forum fighting or posturing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGepSEOacVA
So, I took the time to watch that video. I understand it's genuine concern on your part, and always welcome a reasoned discussion

Firstly, the UNECE testing is different from NCAP. The UNECE is a legal minimum required in many countries, but not used in China. NCAP is a consumer body who do their own, different, tests on the most popular models sold.

Therefore while they are legitimate concerns, it's difficult to draw parallels between vehicles which don't have to meet certain safety standards with those that do.

Of course, the safety tests won't cover every scenario - but reputable manufacturers will do significant in-house testing prior to ever getting a type approval for a vehicle. An old article, but this article suggests GM will conduct up to 175 crashes prior to releasing a new model:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/a...s/17CRASH.html

And as we're on a Volvo forum, there's plenty of info online on the state of the art crash lab Volvo has. Plenty of other manufacturers have similar facilities and test in a huge range of different crash scenarios, not just those prescribed by regulation/NCAP.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


I'd also question what credentials MGUY has. For someone to only present negative data suggests a deliberate angle rather than a balanced viewpoint He appears to just be collating data (all with a fairly negative viewpoint on EVs) but some of that comes from sites which don't seem too consistent.
For example, this is one article he cites:

https://carnewschina.com/2022/04/18/...s-are-on-fire/

Within the article, it says

Quote:
The Chinese media reported only 86 electric vehicle fire accidents in the past two years, averaging one accident per week. However, in the first quarter of this year, 640 electric vehicles caught on fire
It isn't clear how those statistics can simultaneously be true.

And again, EVs sold in China don't have to meet the same standards those sold in the UK / EU do.

Throughout my entire working career so far I've dealt with experts on vehicle safety from a range of manufacturers. I've seen car crash tests and safety tests across 4 continents and don't feel there is any greater danger from a well-designed and well-built EV than an equivalent petrol car. What experience does MGUY have to contradict those experts?

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You'll have to talk to my agent about that I'm afraid I've stopped working for free.

The obvious is that the cell chemistry has to change although with what who knows, they keep banging on about Solid State & Sodium but can either hold the energy needed to power a car though as a car isn't a Sanyo radio is it.

As far as crash risk they need to find a way to stack them differently so no cell edge is near the average deformity a car normally suffers in t-bones etc, anything more will be overkill as if the car is really hit past it's capability to resist and the shell looks like a squashed cardboard box then people are dead already, I had this happen to me before, the car took it really well and I'd say the cill moved in about 3-4 inches having been hit by a VW polo van doing an estimated 60 mph drunk, it also glance hit me just on the b pillar edge of the door had it been the front passenger door or the actual B pillar I think results would've varied, easily put he cop nudged me rather than slammed me resulting in roundy roundy games, the following week someone hit a tree head on in a B5 Passat and was killed instantly.
.
Solid state batteries are already pretty close:

https://newatlas.com/automotive/im-l...r-solid-state/

and I can't think of a single EV I've seen where the batteries are stored close to any 'normal' crumple zones, including those seen in side pole impacts.

Are there any examples of EU/UK sold electric cars where the batteries are in or near a crumple zone?
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