NJGB Joining the 164 Family - Intro and Few Questions

[NJGreenBudd]

Thanks for the welcome and input!

I really appreiciate the information given so far, very helpful and good to know there's a support base for these cars. I am arranging shipping now and hope to have it home buy the second week of July. I will certainly do a few minor repairs to get it on the road, keeping everything as is for the summer. Over the fall/winter I will look into sourcing some better manifolds and carbs.

Do the Stromburgs and HUs all fit onto the stock carb manifold? I have seen others that come with 3 smaller manifolds as well. Links to any carb setups or more info on the manifolds would be great.

I still have to decide how far I want to get into the car, I'd love to do a full restoration but I have limited time with work the way it is. I might just try to make the most of it while it's in decent shape, maybe treat the rust and hope for the best. We'll know more once it's home and I get to drive it around.

Thanks again!
NJGB

[Brock05]

Strombergs and SU's won't fit on your manifold as they are designed to be positioned with the venturi's (roughly) horizontally, your manifold would put them vertically and using an adapter would give you clearance issues with the bonnet.
I think any standard manifold for the 2 carb setup will fit, i'm using a manifold from an early B30 engine on a late TE head and have had no problem. I'd second John H's suggestion of removing the wings to see the bonnet hinge mounts, pictures of my 142 confirm how bad they can be without any real outward signs!!

[NJGreenBudd]

Starting to make more sense as I read more and more.

So if I found a standard carbed manifold I should be able to bolt up a pair of either Stromberg or SU? or is the standard manifold for a single carb?

Or if I found a sidedraft 3 carb manifold they would fit then?

I will find some pictures of what I am talking about and then maybe we can hash out what will fit, what's availible and what's worthwhile.

[john h]

But try it out with the existing carbs before you buy new parts. You might be lucky and find that it works fine!

John

[Brock05]

Standard manifold is a twin carb originally for Stromberg CD175's and as far as i know will take either carb, the triple sidedraught originally has SU's, (not sure if they were HS6 or HS4's) but again will probably take either. Both carb types were fitted to many different cars, so if you buy them separately you may find the needles/jets need to be replaced with the ones suitable for the B30 engine.

[guitarman]

Personally, I would leave things mechanically as they are- you may find your triple carb set up provides more power than the twin Strombergs common on 164s. I think an auto box is a must on a 164- it ain't a sports car and I'm told the 400/410 gearbox is notchy at best. If I was to change the gearbox it would be for a 4 speed Borg Warner from a later vehicle.
In terms of the bodywork I would start by checking the spare wheel wells and front valance- these areas are the worst 'rot spots' on 164s. The front of the rear arches can also get bad. Try and get the car up and running ASAP though and worry about the more cosmetic bodywork topside later- working on a car which is rolling is always more heartening! Jimmy

[john h]

Originally Posted by guitarman

Personally, I would leave things mechanically as they are- you may find your triple carb set up provides more power than the twin Strombergs common on 164s.

Agreed - at least to try it out.

Originally Posted by guitarman

I think an auto box is a must on a 164- it ain't a sports car and I'm told the 400/410 gearbox is notchy at best. If I was to change the gearbox it would be for a 4 speed Borg Warner from a later vehicle.

I disagree entirely. I've had 164s with three different M410 manual boxes and one M400. All have a lovely gearchange. It's not like a modern car of course - it's more direct, somewhat heavier, and you can actually feel gears moving as you move the lever. But it is a smooth, positive gearchange which can be very quick when necessary; a real pleasure to use and one of my favourite things about the 164.

The 3 speed auto, on the other hand, has too few ratios, leaving the car revving too high at modern motorway cruising speeds. Plus the old-tech torque converter (with no lock-up) is very inefficient. I converted my 1974 164E from auto to manual and, with no other mods, it felt as though it had gained 30-40% more power and fuel economy was significantly improved.

I do agree that swapping in a later 4 speed lock-up auto box would be a nice modification if you want to stay auto. A bellhousing adapotor kit is available for this - I think from the Netherlands. If you're interested in that, let me know and I'll try to find the link.

Originally Posted by guitarman

In terms of the bodywork I would start by checking the spare wheel wells and front valance- these areas are the worst 'rot spots' on 164s. The front of the rear arches can also get bad. Try and get the car up and running ASAP though and worry about the more cosmetic bodywork topside later- working on a car which is rolling is always more heartening! Jimmy

Agreed. Also check chassis rails front and rear, especially where the front cross-member bolts on and the rear shock absorber mounts. And the inner wing behind the bonnet hinge.

Let us know how you're getting on with it !

Cheers

John

[guitarman]

John, the old Auto versus manual argument appears again! I have not driven a manual 164 so I'm not able to personally comment, I have however been told by others that they find the M400/410 to be a crude gearbox. I have also found my automatic car to be capable of happily cruising at 70mph and more..... I have found it a pleasure to drive in London too; on the occasions I've been stuck in traffic the auto is a great boon. Id very much like to try a manual car to see! Perhaps a 164 owners poll is needed! Jimmy

[john h]

Originally Posted by guitarman

John, the old Auto versus manual argument appears again! I have not driven a manual 164 so I'm not able to personally comment, I have however been told by others that they find the M400/410 to be a crude gearbox. I have also found my automatic car to be capable of happily cruising at 70mph and more..... I have found it a pleasure to drive in London too; on the occasions I've been stuck in traffic the auto is a great boon. Id very much like to try a manual car to see! Perhaps a 164 owners poll is needed! Jimmy

You're welcome to try mine, but it'll be a year or two before it's finished and back on the road.

The M410 164 crusies very happily at 100mph; 4000rpm in overdrive top.

John