240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

...

The K-Jet system is as simple as a carb, if not more simple. Far more reliable then the "Pierbug" carb and will give better power and economy too.

...!

Okay Dave, let's think this one through (but don't take this as me giving up on the Pierburg carburettor plan, that is still the odds-on favourite).

If I were to go for installing the K-Jet system what would I need? I don't know anything about this - so excuse me if I assume something incorrectly.

a. There would need to be an electric fuel pump to get petrol forward from the tank. I understand the Volvo solution was a submersible pump, but I'm thinking an external one similar to that on a P1800 would be easy to install in the existing fuel line, something like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171662360...3ABFBMmpjdrcJg

... installed close to the tank with a wire running to the ignition circuit would suffice.

b. Is the HP pump for the K-Jet electric or mechanical? I'm guessing the answer is mechanical, and it is that contraption lurking just behind the distributor:



... would that be right?

Perhaps the pump would be part #10 and #20 in this diagram (credit to VP Autoparts):



... and is actuated by the auxiliary shaft just like the RB's mechanical LP pump? If so would I be right in thinking the k-Jet system would therefore be more of less modular in that the only connections to the motor car would be the throttle and kick down cable, the fuel supply (from that LP pump) and a pneumatic hose for the brake servo?

c. I notice there are other parts listed such as the cold start valve, warm-up regulator and air mass meter. Are these all self contained within the K-Jet system module, or do they require interaction (particularly electrical wiring) with the motor car.

I'm still not convinced at your assertion that K-Jet is simpler than a carburettor that would require no changes whatsoever to the RB, but I'm listening to the argument and if the only change was fitting an external LP fuel pump and a bit of wire for £20 then I'd be much closer to being persuaded.

I suppose a complete B230E/AW70 installation might be considered a bit less Heath Robinson that a hybrid carburettor solution (although that was offered with the B230A from 1985-86 with an identical Pierburg DVG 175CDSU - so perhaps that is a red herring). The B230e gave 131HP and the B230a 110HP, both a good improvement.

I'm slightly loath to get involved with air mass meters, warm-up regulators and cold start valves compared with the simplicity of just one LP pump, a single carburettor and a manual choke.

Your (and other's) comments would be much appreciated.

:-)

[Laird Scooby]

No AMM on the K-Jet!

You will need two fuel pumps, an LP lift pump in the tank and a high pressure one (HP) that is usually (on the 7xx at least) underslung in a bespoke bracket under the floor bleow the passenger seat. A supply from the ignition coil will probably be ok although it would be nice to fit the correct fuel pump relay and fuses.

If your tank doesn't already have one, you will need to add a return line.

What you see behind the ignition distributor is the fuel distributor, mounted on resilient mounts with no direct mechanical connection to the engine.

The cold start injector is operated by a thermoswitch on the head if memory serves and just needs an ignition or starter fed supply (i'd have to double check) so really the only external parts you'll need are wiring for the two pumps and plumbing for the same. You may have to find a supply for the CSI but if my memory is correct and it is fed from the starter (when energised) then the wiring will almost certainly be there.

Balance the effort of adding two electric fuel pumps and supply for them against having to change the inlet manifold, plug the head (if the injection ports are in the head - later models if memory serves were in the inlet manifold) ports, fit the distributor from the RB into the K-Jet block (different advance curves) then fit the Pierbug carb and i think you'll see why i said it's easier to just fit the K-Jet complete.
I expect the seller of the engine etc would be amenable to you having the fuel pumps, hoses, filter etc and associated brackets as i doubt they would be usable on the Toyota lump he's fitting in their place. He may want to hang on to the gearbox rear crossmember mounting though as the Lexus uses the AW70 on the early 4.0 V8 as well.

Think that's covered it, if i remember anything else i'll post it up.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

No AMM on the K-Jet!

You will need two fuel pumps, an LP lift pump in the tank and a high pressure one (HP) that is usually (on the 7xx at least) underslung in a bespoke bracket under the floor bleow the passenger seat. A supply from the ignition coil will probably be ok although it would be nice to fit the correct fuel pump relay and fuses.

If your tank doesn't already have one, you will need to add a return line.

What you see behind the ignition distributor is the fuel distributor, mounted on resilient mounts with no direct mechanical connection to the engine.

The cold start injector is operated by a thermoswitch on the head if memory serves and just needs an ignition or starter fed supply (i'd have to double check) so really the only external parts you'll need are wiring for the two pumps and plumbing for the same. You may have to find a supply for the CSI but if my memory is correct and it is fed from the starter (when energised) then the wiring will almost certainly be there.

Balance the effort of adding two electric fuel pumps and supply for them against having to change the inlet manifold, plug the head (if the injection ports are in the head - later models if memory serves were in the inlet manifold) ports, fit the distributor from the RB into the K-Jet block (different advance curves) then fit the Pierbug carb and i think you'll see why i said it's easier to just fit the K-Jet complete.
I expect the seller of the engine etc would be amenable to you having the fuel pumps, hoses, filter etc and associated brackets as i doubt they would be usable on the Toyota lump he's fitting in their place. He may want to hang on to the gearbox rear crossmember mounting though as the Lexus uses the AW70 on the early 4.0 V8 as well.

Think that's covered it, if i remember anything else i'll post it up.

Ah, I see. In that case I'm certainly veering towards the carburettor solution - the only jobs are fitting a mechanical fuel pump (2 bolts) and the inlet manifold complete with Pierburg carburettor, throttle kick down and choke cables still attached (8 bolts). I'm pretty sure the RB's distributor (the electronic ignition one) is from a B230 or similar anyway, so there is no point swapping it - that is it, nothing else and I end up with a B230a 4 speed auto (which Mr Volvo sold).

It was worthwhile thinking about this, but I suspect the K-Jet system complete will be carefully packed into a nice, clean cardboard box in case one day I decide I can't live without another 21HP :-).

Alan

PS. The gearbox crossmember should be mine: the deal was that anything that bolted to the engine or gearbox I could take :-)

[360beast]

If power is the aim then twin DCOE Weber's, nice and simple and better than aging k jet parts that are increasingly hard to come by.

If simplicity, a working car and a slight power gain is the aim, pooberg it is or even better convert to a single Weber carb as you can buy a straight conversion kit for this from webcon.

If fuel injection is the desired object then buy an LH2.4 conversion loom from classicswede and convert to a better system than the K jet.

Just my 2p

If it all goes tits up then I'll have it for some underfloor fast and furious neons and 20" spinners.

[BicycleBoy]

...and a thought about the deglazed barrels and new rings:
You are running it in with non-synthetic mineral oil, aren't you?

[Othen]

Originally Posted by 360beast

If power is the aim then twin DCOE Weber's, nice and simple and better than aging k jet parts that are increasingly hard to come by.

If simplicity, a working car and a slight power gain is the aim, pooberg it is or even better convert to a single Weber carb as you can buy a straight conversion kit for this from webcon.

If fuel injection is the desired object then buy an LH2.4 conversion loom from classicswede and convert to a better system than the K jet.

Just my 2p

If it all goes tits up then I'll have it for some underfloor fast and furious neons and 20" spinners.

How much did you want for the undercar fast and furious neons and 20” spinners Luke?

:-)

[Othen]

Originally Posted by BicycleBoy

...and a thought about the deglazed barrels and new rings:
You are running it in with non-synthetic mineral oil, aren't you?

Of course :-)

[Othen]

Originally Posted by 360beast

If simplicity, a working car and a slight power gain is the aim, pooberg it is or even better convert to a single Weber carb as you can buy a straight conversion kit for this from webcon..

This one?

https://www.webcon.co.uk/products/16...-manual-choke/

… or this?

https://www.webcon.co.uk/products/16...-manual-choke/

£611 +VAT is more than than the B230/AW70 project!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Othen

This one?

https://www.webcon.co.uk/products/16...-manual-choke/

… or this?

https://www.webcon.co.uk/products/16...-manual-choke/

£611 +VAT is more than than the B230/AW70 project!

... this is slightly tempting for GAM - £625 inc VAT.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

No AMM on the K-Jet!

You will need two fuel pumps, an LP lift pump in the tank and a high pressure one (HP) that is usually (on the 7xx at least) underslung in a bespoke bracket under the floor bleow the passenger seat. A supply from the ignition coil will probably be ok although it would be nice to fit the correct fuel pump relay and fuses.

If your tank doesn't already have one, you will need to add a return line.

What you see behind the ignition distributor is the fuel distributor, mounted on resilient mounts with no direct mechanical connection to the engine.

The cold start injector is operated by a thermoswitch on the head if memory serves and just needs an ignition or starter fed supply (i'd have to double check) so really the only external parts you'll need are wiring for the two pumps and plumbing for the same. You may have to find a supply for the CSI but if my memory is correct and it is fed from the starter (when energised) then the wiring will almost certainly be there.

Balance the effort of adding two electric fuel pumps and supply for them against having to change the inlet manifold, plug the head (if the injection ports are in the head - later models if memory serves were in the inlet manifold) ports, fit the distributor from the RB into the K-Jet block (different advance curves) then fit the Pierbug carb and i think you'll see why i said it's easier to just fit the K-Jet complete.
I expect the seller of the engine etc would be amenable to you having the fuel pumps, hoses, filter etc and associated brackets as i doubt they would be usable on the Toyota lump he's fitting in their place. He may want to hang on to the gearbox rear crossmember mounting though as the Lexus uses the AW70 on the early 4.0 V8 as well.

Think that's covered it, if i remember anything else i'll post it up.

Good morn Dave,

I've just read the BofH's (quite good) section on the K-Jet (or Continuous Injection (CI) as Haynes calls it). I can see that the basic principle of constantly dribbling petrol in just above the inlet valve is simple - but the plethora of 1970's mechanical and electrical fixes needed to make it work is far from it!

The business of having to fit a return line to the tank is enough to put me off, then there are two electric pumps and wiring, plus the air flow sensor, fuel accumulator, auxiliary air valve, fuel distributor, cold start injector, thermal time switch, air-fuel control unit and the 4 injectors... I can't help thinking that if I tried to transplant all that onto the RB I'd still be trying to get it to run at Xmas.

The Pierburg DVG 175 CDUS carburettor the RB has is exactly the same one as Volvo lists for the MY 1985/86 B230a, so I'm thinking that should work well, I'm not even sure it will need a larger jet, generally the mixture adjustment will allow for about +/- 10% airflow in carburettor systems. Carburettors are my comfort zone being more a bike than a car bloke.

I checked on the electronic distributor fitted to the RB, it is a Bosch JHFUD4 that Mr Volvo fitted to MY 1984-87 240s, so my guess is the RB has been running with the same unit at the B230; I'll check when I have the motor here but there won't be any point changing it if it is the same (although it will be useful to have a spare - Autodoc charges £375.44 for the same).

I think you can guess where I'm going with this Dave. I've listened to the arguments that the K-Jet system is simpler than a carburettor that I already have, and that it would be easy to install on the RB - and I'm unconvinced by both.

Unless there turns out to be some insurmountable reason that the B21a manifold and carburettor cannot be installed with the B230 engine, then that is the way I'm heading. The good news is that second hand K-Jet bits seem to sell for a small fortune (I'm guessing because they have not been made for 30 years), so I should be able to recoup considerable project costs by selling the carboard box containing a complete working system at the end of this part of the RB project :-).

As always, thank you for your help and advice Dave.

Alan