Back on Track - Made it into the 300bhp club

[foggyjames]

Congratulations Russell! However, as you're obviously aware, those curves aren't too healthy. Good luck with sorting them out, whichever route you decide to go down.

The MS installation on a 5-pot isn't the easiest. It can be done, but there's quite a bit of tinkering to be done...both hardware and software. There's a guide on Turbobricks, if you want to get a feel for what's involved. I'd only do this if you fancy the challenge, not out of necessity. We're running MS on a 4-pot...the install hasn't been without its problems, and it's a LOT simpler than on the 5.

The number of people who have mentioned returning their Turbo-Tuner units is worrying, and there are clearly problems with this product which Adam needs to sort out as a matter of urgency, as "pot luck" success is just not good enough. I've never played with a TT setup, but it appears to be about more than just pilot error. Marco (of MTE) is able to make these more exotic hardware setups work...so it seems a little more development time is required. Having said that, there are several cars making (very) good power on TT installations, so it is possible. Also to Adam's credit, the customer service appears to be first rate. The product concept is very exciting...which makes it all the more disappointing that a number of people have had problems. I very much hope this is cleared up sooner rather than later.

The best option at the moment appears to be a custom map for the standard ECU from one of the "mappers". Most people with the more exotic setups appears to use MTE for this service. However, I personally like the idea of being able to 'tinker' (safely) myself...which is why I love the concept of TT so much. It's such a shame that (at the moment, at least) the realisation of that concept appears to be flawed.

cheers

James

[strbryan]

Originally Posted by LFCred

Is this Strbryan for real? he must be the forum clown, serioulsy Moderators do something about this fool.

Going on another forum and stating he wants to punch someone's teeth down their throat, what discusting behaviour.

This is a VOLVO forum, about volvo's, keep it Volvo!

He seems to be on a mission to ruin every thread he does not agree with yet as proven he has little knowledge or true evidence. In all my years using forums, I have NEVER come across such a fool.

Rnash, I am sorry that he has once again ruined your thread.

Now who could you be?

Seeing as your new to the forum and seeing as you think you have all the answers to tuning Volvo's would you be so kind and answer my previous questions?? http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showpo...2&postcount=32

[turbo-tuner]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

The number of people who have mentioned returning their Turbo-Tuner units is worrying, and there are clearly problems with this product which Adam needs to sort out as a matter of urgency, as "pot luck" success is just not good enough.

James, I think it's worth me mentioning that since the launch of Turbo-Tuner over 2 years ago, only two TT units have been returned for a refund. Whilst I accept that there have been teething problems in the past, all other customer's problems to date have been resolved and any new issues that might arise are addressed as a matter of urgency. If a TT ECU unit is faulty and the problem cannot be resolved, a replacement TT unit would be supplied. There is certainly no "pot luck" involved.

Please bear in mind that the scope of potential problems which require support is quite wide and includes potential problems with software installation, USB comms, device drivers, OS compatibility, hardware compatibility, vehicle hardware configurations, USA smog test compliance, etc etc. Customer expectations, experience and requirements also vary considerably.

I do stand by the TT product and further development will continue in order to bring in new features and to overcome certain existing limitations.

[t5_monkey]

Originally Posted by turbo-tuner

James, I think it's worth me mentioning that since the launch of Turbo-Tuner over 2 years ago, only two TT units have been returned for a refund. Whilst I accept that there have been teething problems in the past, all other customer's problems to date have been resolved and any new issues that might arise are addressed as a matter of urgency. If a TT ECU unit is faulty and the problem cannot be resolved, a replacement TT unit would be supplied. There is certainly no "pot luck" involved.

Please bear in mind that the scope of potential problems which require support is quite wide and includes potential problems with software installation, USB comms, device drivers, OS compatibility, hardware compatibility, vehicle hardware configurations, USA smog test compliance, etc etc. Customer expectations, experience and requirements also vary considerably.

I do stand by the TT product and further development will continue in order to bring in new features and to overcome certain existing limitations.

I think while failures may be discussion worthy - a 'tune your own car' system that's completely foolproof would be awfully difficult to design.

If the Turbo tuner comes with a warning on the packet 'if you use this device incorrectly you will make your car go bang!' it's still a reasonable proposition for the true enthusiast... after all where's the excitement without a little danger?

[foggyjames]

Originally Posted by turbo-tuner

James, I think it's worth me mentioning that since the launch of Turbo-Tuner over 2 years ago, only two TT units have been returned for a refund. Whilst I accept that there have been teething problems in the past, all other customer's problems to date have been resolved and any new issues that might arise are addressed as a matter of urgency.

...but I know of at least two more cases off the top of my head where users are experiencing significant difficulties. We also don't know (and I'm not expecting you to tell us, don't worry) how many have actually been sold. Four might be a significant proportion of the systems sold over the past two years...at least in this country!

I haven't played with a TT system, so not in a position to be too specific about what the problem is, but all the people I've spoken to appear to be having problems when using a TT system with non-standard hardware (which is rather the point of having a TT system!)...and it *appears* to be that the lambda correction is fighting the map, causing poor idling (based on a) that being a plausible explanation, and b) the codes being generated). It doesn't appear that a "fault" as such is the problem...rather an adjustment which needs to be made. This clearly is not an inherent problem with the ECU, as these problems can be made to go away by other tuners....but (presumably) some feature of the ECU which is not user-adjustable in the TT software. I could make some guesses based on experience with other programmable systems, but they may be counter-productive given the unknown (to me) architecture of the Motronic ECU.

I want to make it perfectly clear that I have nothing against you or the product. I love the concept of the product. There can be no argument that your support has been first-rate. I just can't recommend it at present, based on what I'm hearing from, basically, everyone I know personally who's bought one. If I hear (from the owners ) that those problems have been sorted out, I'll be right back on the wagon.

Just to prove that I'm not just being a dick, I have a question which might even be of commercial benefit. 1996+ 960s run Motronic 4.4, like a P1 70-series car. Could a version of TT be produced for those cars, if there was suitable demand? It seems like a very neat solution for people wanting to go for a T6 conversion, and I know of at least one person who would be interested in such a setup. It strikes me that the hardware would be, essentially, identical...but the software (not having seen it) might be a different matter. With genuine interest...

cheers

James

[turbo-tuner]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

...but I know of at least two more cases off the top of my head where users are experiencing significant difficulties.

I haven't been made aware of any significant difficulties. It would be greatly appeciated if you could ask these two users to contact me so that I can help resolve any problems they may be experiencing.

Originally Posted by foggyjames

I haven't played with a TT system, so not in a position to be too specific about what the problem is, but all the people I've spoken to appear to be having problems when using a TT system with non-standard hardware (which is rather the point of having a TT system!)...and it *appears* to be that the lambda correction is fighting the map, causing poor idling (based on a) that being a plausible explanation, and b) the codes being generated). It doesn't appear that a "fault" as such is the problem...rather an adjustment which needs to be made. This clearly is not an inherent problem with the ECU, as these problems can be made to go away by other tuners....but (presumably) some feature of the ECU which is not user-adjustable in the TT software.

It may well be the case! Without knowing specific details I couldn't really say. What I can say is that the larger the injectors being used, the worse the fueling control resolution the user has at idle. While it poses no problems for WOT tuning, achieving a smooth idle can be a time consuming task in the current TT version, something which I want to address.

Originally Posted by foggyjames

I want to make it perfectly clear that I have nothing against you or the product. I love the concept of the product. There can be no argument that your support has been first-rate. I just can't recommend it at present, based on what I'm hearing from, basically, everyone I know personally who's bought one. If I hear (from the owners ) that those problems have been sorted out, I'll be right back on the wagon.

I do take on board what you are saying. If I know what the problems are then I can certainly try to address them as quickly as possible. While I can understand you not recommending TT for specifc advanced setups based on what you have heard, I don't believe it applies across the board because the system does cope with a wide range of setups. I accept that the system currently has limitations (partly due to the Motronic system itself), but I do try to explain these to potential customers. Where the customer requirements are well within the scope of the product's capability, I see no reason why it can't be successfully used to tune the car.

Originally Posted by foggyjames

Just to prove that I'm not just being a dick, I have a question which might even be of commercial benefit. 1996+ 960s run Motronic 4.4, like a P1 70-series car. Could a version of TT be produced for those cars, if there was suitable demand? It seems like a very neat solution for people wanting to go for a T6 conversion, and I know of at least one person who would be interested in such a setup. It strikes me that the hardware would be, essentially, identical...but the software (not having seen it) might be a different matter. With genuine interest...

Currently enquiries for a 6 cyl version have been very few. Whilst the hardware will be similar (with the exception of having no OEM boost control) and a 6 cyl TT could indeed be made, there are still costs associated with development. For example, I would need to purchase and run a 960, both for development and for testing units prior to shipping. This would be on top of the current T5 running costs (insurance, road tax, petrol, servicing, maintenance and repairs etc, plus the extra parking space required). This is before any software development costs are factored in. My experience of the 6 cyl tuning scene is limited so I can't really gauge what the potential demand is, which would need to be high enough in order to make it a viable product.

[glock19]

IMHO, I think the TT is great (albeit costly ) but I got two of them. I run them on 19T-Greens and 16T-Blues. No idling problems, making 272 whp (Dynojet) on the autobox (both cars) so multiply that by 20% = 320 crank.

However to be frank it takes time and lots of remapping to reach there but it develops you in the end and I feel it's worth it. So the map-sharing option in the TT is never used as you tend to treasure your own particular map.

I've used MTE and RICA and without using any MBC/EBC or wastegate adjustment, I could never maintain 1.2 bars - wastegate is now set to drop straight onto the flap's locating pin.

850 engine going boom at 1.3 bar ? Well I think not at 4500 rpms and above provided you have a good afr, egt, ignition, etc. Also use the Volvo's own TCV. FYI, I've 2pcs of the BORIS-Knock, DEFI gauges (Boost, EGT, Oil Pressure) with Zeitronix datalogging RPM, TPS, MAF, EGT (again), Boost (again) and of course the precious AFR. So if I do go wrong, I should really kick my own behind.

[strbryan]

Originally Posted by turbo-tuner

I do take on board what you are saying. If I know what the problems are then I can certainly try to address them as quickly as possible. While I can understand you not recommending TT for specifc advanced setups based on what you have heard, I don't believe it applies across the board because the system does cope with a wide range of setups. I accept that the system currently has limitations (partly due to the Motronic system itself), but I do try to explain these to potential customers. Where the customer requirements are well within the scope of the product's capability, I see no reason why it can't be successfully used to tune the car.

Adam although I cannot fault your customer service nor can I fault how quickly you answered my emails regarding the CEL lights, I have even mentioned this fact to members from T5D5.

However I can fault you on the way you lied to me regarding you fixing my TT.I even made it perfectly clear that I wished you to keep the TT as long as you required as long as the problem was fixed.After 2 months you returned the TT insuring me that all the problems where resolved and that you had been running my TT in your car for 3 weeks without fail and without the CEL light returning.

After receiving my TT you even remotely down loaded the new software onto my laptop(just to make sure everything was done correctly).Whilst downloading you had trouble installing the new software onto my TT and stated you had to turn off the DTC function temporarily to allow the download to install.

Once the download had installed onto my TT you stated that everything had worked and could I install the TT into my car and take it for a quick run.I did this and all seemed OK.You then asked me to run the TT on the standard map for a couple of days, which I did.

The following day is when I bent my rods after the car over boosted.

When I got home I emailed you stating I had a problem(although I did not state what the problem was)and asked you what exactly you had done to my TT.Your reply after you mentioned you hadn't fixed the problem and simply turned off my DTC function off was.

Quote from: Tony-R on May 26, 2010, 07:24:12 AM

Adam and you failed to mention this because?


Because I made a mistake in my explanation and for that I apologise. The detailed explanation is this...

The solution exists, ie the complete fix, but the current version of the TT app does not support this fix yet. So you currently have a temporary workaround which I have tested in my own car for a few weeks. Once the updated version of the TT app is available, I will issue you with another file which then gives you the full fix. Again, sorry for not explaining this properly.

Quote from: Tony-R on May 26, 2010, 07:24:12 AM

What problems would occur with the DTC's turned off?Will the ECU warning light illuminate at all?My main concern would be over boost or fuel cut,is this possible to happen now the DTC's has been turned off?


The safety systems remain in place, even though the DTC system is off. But as a precaution, I will double-check later today that the overboost fuel cut works on my own car with the DTC system off and will PM you this evening.

Please bear in mind that the overboost fuel cut is not particularly accurate because it's not boost related but is air-flow related. This makes it variable in terms of the boost levels to which it responds.

[strbryan]

2 weeks on and still no reply..