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£3.00 charge to enter ULEZ zone for ALL cars

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Old Dec 8th, 2021, 10:54   #61
JJD1
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Originally Posted by pinballdave View Post
That's good as it will be a discount from the £12.50 charge you have to pay today to drive a non compliant vehicle in the ULEZ.

This whole 'he said, she said' thing sounds a bit fishy. I wouldn't be surprised if someone somewhere with a vendetta against the Mayor is making numbers up without actually thinking it through, and I also wouldn't be surprised if it eventually turns into policy.




I looked into train driving as a career change a while ago, and it's incredibly difficult to get through the selection process. The 'interview' is a 3 day process, with lots of testing, and a very high drop out rate. Then there's classroom training, with many exams that weed out a lot more before they even get behind the controls of a simulator. It takes 18 months to get qualified. For every thousand that get as far as the interview only a handful get through, and many thousands more don't even make it to the interview stage.

So it becomes a balancing act between the complexity of the process to get qualified, and the wages offered. As the industry already has problems getting enough skilled train drivers at wages significantly higher than £35k, the only way to lower wages would be to make it easier to get qualified, which would impact safety and reliability.



But where's the money coming from to make it significantly easier or cheaper? If someone has got to pay for it, who better than the people doing the behaviour that they want to stop?
Tell us more about the application process and training . As I just dont get whats so special .The trains are almost fully automated ?
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Old Dec 8th, 2021, 12:10   #62
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Tell us more about the application process and training . As I just dont get whats so special .The trains are almost fully automated ?
See attached link if you really want to know what's involved in the training. This gives a thorough description.

https://www.traindriver.org/training.html#
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Old Dec 8th, 2021, 15:49   #63
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Tell us more about the application process and training . As I just dont get whats so special .The trains are almost fully automated ?
I don't know the application process in detail, as after I looked into it further, I decided that it wasn't for me. But I can give you some insight into what's so special...

Yes some tube lines are fairly well automated, except when they're not. So if there's any slight glitch with the train, the track, the signalling, or the communication systems, the automation system drops out and the driver needs to be fully qualified and ready to drive the train manually at a moments notice. If they can't, then you've got an immovable object holding up the entire system until a qualified driver can turn up.

If you're blocking a line that runs 36 trains an hour, with each train holding 1000+ passengers, then even if a replacement driver is only 30 minutes away (which is a really short time in London rush hour traffic), then you're going to have 20,000 people in a crush loaded train either stuck in a tunnel underground, or if they're lucky deposited at some random station and have to find their way to their destination from there.

You've not only got to be a driver, with the skills to stop a train within a tolerance of a foot, from full line speed to a halt, using a braking system that would be condemned as useless and dangerous if it was fitted to a road vehicle (you only have three possible braking rates to use, and one of them will make all the passengers fall over! and it's incapable of stopping within the distance you can see ahead). You also have to be a trained electrician and mechanic, who knows every system on the train they're driving and can quickly find and fix faults on a train that might be over 40 years old (again there's no time to wait for an engineer to turn up and fix it with thousands of passengers stuck in tunnels).

You also need to know every bit of the track, and be able to keep full concentration on what is an extremely boring and repetitive job, as if you miss just one repeater signal at caution (that might be on a bend so you only have a very short time to observe it), then you won't have the braking ability to stop at the next one at danger and will run into the back of the train in front, and 2000 passengers could be injured or killed.

You've also got to be prepared for those who may attempt to end their lives in front of your train, and the emotional scarring that you may feel for the rest of your life if it happens to you. Around one in three tube drivers have a 'one under' in their careers, and many of them struggle to get over it.

If you're capable of all that, can live in London on a supermarket checkout workers salary while you are training, will be happy working unsociable shifts and are willing to move house so you're close enough to the tube depot that you are assigned to, so that you can get to work when there's no public transport available (and nowhere to park a car) for an eventual salary of ~£50k, then you're welcome to it.

And finally, you've also got to put up with all the jibes from clueless people who think that all you need to do is just sit there and press buttons to open the doors all day.
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Old Dec 8th, 2021, 16:07   #64
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Driverless Trains
Answered By:
The Mayor
Date:
Wednesday, 16th January 2019
There are no driverless trains on London Underground, as there is an occupied cab on all rolling stock fleets. All London Underground trains are currently either operated manually (when a train driver controls starting and stopping, the operation of doors and handling of emergencies) or in semi-automatic mode (when starting and stopping is automated, but a driver operates the doors and drives the train if needed).

Technology is increasingly automating the way railways are operated, and in some cases, the movement of trains is controlled automatically via the control and signalling systems rather than by the driver. Driverless trains have been in operation on the Docklands Light Railway since it opened in 1987, though a train attendant is present to operate the doors and drive the train if needed.

Since 2015, Transport for London (TfL) has been designing and implementing with partner Thales the Four Lines Modernisation Programme, which will introduce new signalling technology across the Metropolitan, Circle, Hammersmith & City and District Lines. TfL is currently upgrading its rolling stock on these lines from manual to semi-automatic, to ensure it can interface with the new systems once switched on.

On the Piccadilly line, 94 new trains will be introduced in the 2020s as part of the Deep Tube Upgrade Programme. As I made clear to the Assembly last year, the London Underground system is an extremely complex environment, in particular, the deep tube lines. For reasons of safety, they are not suitable for driverless trains and there are no plans for their introduction.




Answer for Driverless Trains
Answered By:
The Mayor
Date:
Tuesday, 22nd January 2019
Officers are drafting a response.
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Old Dec 8th, 2021, 17:28   #65
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I like to visit London as a tourist, but thankfully don't live there. Londoners getting constantly shafted.
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Old Dec 9th, 2021, 01:41   #66
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I like to visit London as a tourist, but thankfully don't live there. Londoners getting constantly shafted.
No, they're not. The rest of the country is getting shafted by the all-consuming focus on the southeast.
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Old Dec 9th, 2021, 15:48   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SignumGB View Post
I like to visit London as a tourist, but thankfully don't live there. Londoners getting constantly shafted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagon Sailor View Post
No, they're not. The rest of the country is getting shafted by the all-consuming focus on the southeast.
your Both right
and in scotland+wales,, you get shafted by westminster And your own local loonie collection

***allegedly like laws, the above doesn't apply to a mp from any of the 3 circus's
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Old Dec 9th, 2021, 20:10   #68
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Tell us more about the application process and training . As I just dont get whats so special .The trains are almost fully automated ?
So are planes. They still need pilots.

Its not just simply a case of pressing a button & off you go. Pilots are highly trained professionals who have to make life changing decisions in seconds before the plane plummets to the ground.

A train driver is the same in many aspects. They’re in control of something very expensive with hundreds of people’s lives in their hands.

Both occupations (pilots & drivers) are very special… certainly not something for the faint hearted. Pilots for example train for years & it’ll have cost you a fortune (if you have the money) to eventually fly for an airline, if you’re lucky enough to be selected! If you haven’t got the funds, then a loan is the other option, but the repayments would be eye watering without any other costs that you have like a mortgage etc.
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Old Dec 10th, 2021, 13:04   #69
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The trouble with automation is that it's fine while it's running automatedly but the situations where the automation fails are the tricky bits, and then the human has to jump in to take control instantly and sort out the tricky situation at the same time. DLR may be fully automated but that is nowhere near the case on other rail lines, it will be a long time before there is enough money to invest in full automation of old infrastructure.
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Old Dec 10th, 2021, 13:52   #70
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Tell us more about the application process and training . As I just dont get whats so special .The trains are almost fully automated ?
I think you make a great argument. I think the issue is however look at it like this….

Airline pilots make little money. If you fly, as a captain, for one of the easyJet, Flybe, or other regional carriers you will have spent thousands and thousands on training and you won’t even pay high rate taxes! That shocks me! So by that definition no one can defend train wages, you are correct.

However. It’s not how I see it. Train drivers we all know have a good union. And I think the wages are fair. I think the issue now if that we have people working 40 hour jobs and not able to afford rent. Companies such as Tesco, marks and spencer and Amazon pay substantial dividends to share holders, have wealthy managers and then have the U.K. government paying benifits to their employees.

I think train wages are what someone with a few years and a decent skills set should get myself.

As a youngster now a days you need a £40,000 wage to be able to have a couple of kids and rent. And that’s not a good life either.

That said I don’t believe anyone needs to work for less than £50,000 a year anyway, but that’s just me personally.
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