Considering a XC60 T8

[tabber]

Originally Posted by Director76

A trick is careful use of hold and B. Use the ICE up hills and the EV on flat surfaces when you’ve built up speed, flick regularly between D and B to max recovery.

Got a T8 this weekend, and loving it so far. When its in pure electric it just whooshes around really nicely. However, just a query on the whole B thing. We were driving around in B all the time rather than D just for the higher regen, thinking it would recover more braking energy. However, I noticed that if you push the brake pedal when its stationary, the first little bit goes down, then there is increased resistance. This leads me to believe the first bit of the brake pedal is just increasing regen, and when you hit the extra resistance, that is applying physical brakes. This seems to also hold true if you look at the power gauge. The more you press the brake, the more it shows going into the battery. There is a red section, which I assume means "If you get here, you are using physical brakes and wasting energy". The manual also says "Under gentle braking" when talking about regen.

Could be wrong, but that's what it seems like to me. In which case, assuming you brake gently enough to not apply physical brakes I don't think B and D make a difference. B just means the brake pedal is being applied ever so slightly for you when you lift off. Have you done a like for like trial, e.g. on your wife's commute to see if not using B makes a difference to range?

Interesting point on using hold up hills. Pity Hold is tucked away a bit on the right hand screen. Must try that though.

Just to answer fuel economy for the OP, when we got the car the average said 22mpg (ouch). I think that was probably test drives, and the use of Power mode to show what the car can do. We were only getting 25mpg out of our 2010 D5, and we are currently on 42mpg average, so i'm happy with that. Not expecting more than 30 on long journeys from what i've read though. We do a lot of short journeys and have been plugging in whenever we can. The short trips show over 100mpg in the VOC app. We've had the engine start up sometimes, even when the battery is full, and that effects fuel economy a lot. Not really sure what's going on there, maybe its Climate control. Doesn't do it all the time though.

Just remember, if you pay 10k more for the hybrid, its not just for the fuel savings. You are also getting a car with more extras (e.g. sunroof, wheels), and with a lot of power when you want it. You have to factor those things in too. Getting one just for fuel economy is probably not something most people will ever recover the cost for.

Cheers,
tabber

[Goodshot]

Originally Posted by Director76

There’s no electric preheat on UK spec cars, it uses the fuel heater for parking pre-heat. You can precool on mains electric (or battery) as the AC is electric not belt driven from the engine.

The preconditioning is as much about getting the battery to the right temperature as driver comfort. It does extend range.

You can turn off aux preheat from Sensus for when the car is in use, but you’d get little / no heating running in battery mode. I’m not sure if the car overrides this setting to provide aux heating to the ICE cooling circuit or battery pack of needed for ‘operational’ reasons.

I had BLIS as I wanted 360, but I’m very glad it’s a very useful additional safety prompt, and the cross traffic alert is clever and helpful

Thanks - I must of misread about electric pre-heating, I know it's available on some phev's. Sounds good - I'll add 360/Bliss to the spec. Anyone have an opinion on the value of laminated side and rear glass in terms of deadening external noise or is it an unnecessary step in an already pretty quiet car?

[Director76]

Originally Posted by tabber

Got a T8 this weekend, and loving it so far. When its in pure electric it just whooshes around really nicely. However, just a query on the whole B thing. We were driving around in B all the time rather than D just for the higher regen, thinking it would recover more braking energy. However, I noticed that if you push the brake pedal when its stationary, the first little bit goes down, then there is increased resistance. This leads me to believe the first bit of the brake pedal is just increasing regen, and when you hit the extra resistance, that is applying physical brakes. This seems to also hold true if you look at the power gauge. The more you press the brake, the more it shows going into the battery. There is a red section, which I assume means "If you get here, you are using physical brakes and wasting energy". The manual also says "Under gentle braking" when talking about regen.

Could be wrong, but that's what it seems like to me. In which case, assuming you brake gently enough to not apply physical brakes I don't think B and D make a difference. B just means the brake pedal is being applied ever so slightly for you when you lift off. Have you done a like for like trial, e.g. on your wife's commute to see if not using B makes a difference to range?

Interesting point on using hold up hills. Pity Hold is tucked away a bit on the right hand screen. Must try that though.

Just to answer fuel economy for the OP, when we got the car the average said 22mpg (ouch). I think that was probably test drives, and the use of Power mode to show what the car can do. We were only getting 25mpg out of our 2010 D5, and we are currently on 42mpg average, so i'm happy with that. Not expecting more than 30 on long journeys from what i've read though. We do a lot of short journeys and have been plugging in whenever we can. The short trips show over 100mpg in the VOC app. We've had the engine start up sometimes, even when the battery is full, and that effects fuel economy a lot. Not really sure what's going on there, maybe its Climate control. Doesn't do it all the time though.

Just remember, if you pay 10k more for the hybrid, its not just for the fuel savings. You are also getting a car with more extras (e.g. sunroof, wheels), and with a lot of power when you want it. You have to factor those things in too. Getting one just for fuel economy is probably not something most people will ever recover the cost for.

Cheers,
tabber

Use B sparingly! You’re far better off in most circumstances using D which maximises the rolling distance. Braking with the pedal uses a combination of regen braking first then mechanical braking.

B is great on long descents (you can actually see the battery notching up a few clicks) and I use it when slowing for changes in speed limits, up to lights etc. finishing off with the brake pedal to stop. Think the jury is out on whether braking with the pedal or B generates any more or less energy, but given that starter-generator generates electricity much slower than the electric drive uses it, I think B for a longer period coming up to say a limit change generates more power than a stab of the pedal to bring the speed down.

[Gneissnz]

Just to clarify for some, the B gear does not use the physical brakes, it uses engine braking to regen for the battery. You depressing the brake pedal a bit then adds to that energy.

In my experience it’s certainly best to drive in D and use B downhill or when coasting to a stop. If fuel efficiency is your goal, then driving in B for normal use should not be the option you choose.

[SpaceBoy42]

Originally Posted by Gneissnz

Just to clarify for some, the B gear does not use the physical brakes, it uses engine braking to regen for the battery. You depressing the brake pedal a bit then adds to that energy.

In my experience it’s certainly best to drive in D and use B downhill or when coasting to a stop. If fuel efficiency is your goal, then driving in B for normal use should not be the option you choose.

Also to clarify, D does not use the brakes either (until you are at low speed) unless you press the brake pedal heavily. In fact you will notice there is very little difference in terms of total regen if you use B or D for driving, it all comes down to driving style and comfort. B is great for when you are going down hill and do not wish to continuously lightly press the brake pedal (which is the same thing) or want to drive mainly with your right foot on the accelerator only (and brake when the regen is not effective at low speed). But D is just as good if you don't mind shifting from the accelerator to brake pedal more often.

This topic has been discussed to death on a certain american Volvo forum and one guy managed to prove you were ever so slightly better off driving around in D everywhere rather than B for multiple journey types.

[Director76]

Originally Posted by SpaceBoy42

Also to clarify, D does not use the brakes either (until you are at low speed) unless you press the brake pedal heavily. In fact you will notice there is very little difference in terms of total regen if you use B or D for driving, it all comes down to driving style and comfort. B is great for when you are going down hill and do not wish to continuously lightly press the brake pedal (which is the same thing) or want to drive mainly with your right foot on the accelerator only (and brake when the regen is not effective at low speed). But D is just as good if you don't mind shifting from the accelerator to brake pedal more often.

This topic has been discussed to death on a certain american Volvo forum and one guy managed to prove you were ever so slightly better off driving around in D everywhere rather than B for multiple journey types.

something I’ve never thought, presumably regen braking via a light touch of the brake pedal B or D brings the brake lights on, whereas Regen braking using B from the shifter doesn’t.

The T8 shifter is such a delight to flick, and very tactile, that I do find myself regularly fondling it between D and B rather than using the brake pedal for light regen!

[tabber]

Ok, interesting, thanks. I thought driving in B would be the most efficient, and that is why the EV manufacturers keep coming out with higher regen options, Nissans e-Pedal for example. The upcoming Merc will have paddles on the steering wheel to increase regen as you drive.

I did a short journey the other night, totally in B / Hybrid mode, and the VOC app showed 0.8KWh used, and 0.4 regen, which I thought was incredible. As it was a short journey in London, there was a lot of stop start, so being in B means I have to hit the brake less often.

I can see how on free-er flowing roads you are wasting energy though, as lifting off mean you slow down more, and then have to accelerate more to compensate. Energy will always be wasted if you capture it, then use it again.

[jjharper18]

I own a xc60 t8 Hybrid and bought one for the express reason that I want to drive locally on electric whilst being able to travel long distance without worrying about charging points. I had the old XC60 for 9 years and loved it. However the hybrid technology is extremely frustrating, if you think that locally you will never use petrol then think again. My car every time I drive it will start in electric mode and allow me to back off my drive in electric and the second you put it in drive it switches to petrol only and will stay in that mode for several minutes, which means all local short journeys burn petrol. The dealers do not know how the technology works and the uk customer support told me they are not technical and couldnt help. if you are doing longer journeys say 12 mile round trip it can be quite good, but dropping the kids at school or doing the weekly shop will burn petrol. For such an expensive car lacking an electric only mode is incredibly disappointing. My advice is until they fix this issue then look elsewhere for a hybrid.

[yeoman]

Originally Posted by jjharper18

I own a xc60 t8 Hybrid and bought one for the express reason that I want to drive locally on electric whilst being able to travel long distance without worrying about charging points. I had the old XC60 for 9 years and loved it. However the hybrid technology is extremely frustrating, if you think that locally you will never use petrol then think again. My car every time I drive it will start in electric mode and allow me to back off my drive in electric and the second you put it in drive it switches to petrol only and will stay in that mode for several minutes, which means all local short journeys burn petrol. The dealers do not know how the technology works and the uk customer support told me they are not technical and couldnt help. if you are doing longer journeys say 12 mile round trip it can be quite good, but dropping the kids at school or doing the weekly shop will burn petrol. For such an expensive car lacking an electric only mode is incredibly disappointing. My advice is until they fix this issue then look elsewhere for a hybrid.

What you must do at all times (if possible )is precondition your car.
This will reduce the number of times and duration the ICE is required at start up.

[Paddybear]

Originally Posted by jjharper18

My car every time I drive it will start in electric mode and allow me to back off my drive in electric and the second you put it in drive it switches to petrol only and will stay in that mode for several minutes, which means all local short journeys burn petrol.

May be worthwhile getting your car checked. My T8 starts in electric and stays in electric in hybrid until the accelerator is pressed heavily. At this point, the petrol engine kicks in and stays on for a little while (as designed to do) before reverting back to electric. Also, try selecting pure as the drive mode and see what happens.