Burger vans, towing, 4x4s and transits.

[volvorocks]

Originally Posted by BigMonty

Next quandary: The transit isnt really man for the job. Most events I do and occasionally on the industrial estate when on grass the traction is none existent.
So I have decided to go for a 4x4. As I need to mount a generator in the back one of the crew cab ( l200/warrior / nivara ) trucks seem to be a logical choice, but I hate the damn things.
Any ideas throw them my way, no matter how daft. ( that's usually where the best ones come from )

Get a Kia Sorento or a Hyundai Sante Fe mid 2000 year. Both tow perfectly. I know I have towed heavy boats and heavy caravans with them perfectly. Also towed cars on trailers with them when I used to buy and sell. A further benefit is they are reliable. They chug on and on and on and on and never complain.

Also get a pitch where I said in that PM you never replied to. You will make £5k in a weekend Friday to Monday - then you can buy a new Sante Fe or Kia Sorento.....!!!!!......

Oh well........................

Regards

[volvorocks]

Originally Posted by Prufrock

Get a four wheel drive Transit then.

Adding AWD/4WD will make no difference to towing stability.Your opinion in not well informed; You obviously haven't towed before so uninformed opinion is fine if you're discussing Coronation Street.

Regards

[BigMonty]

Hi VR.
Apologies for my rudeness in not replying to your PM, I never quite finished the reply. I will.
The 4x4 thing is because at a few events I have done the transit has got bogged down, winter coming it will only get worse.
Problem is with most 4x4s: I have to mount a generator in the back and carry at least a gallon of petrol, not quite what you want in the cabin.

[dingov70]

Ok , here we go . First thing is to weight the towhitch with your van loaded & make sure it does not exceed nose towing weight for your motor normally 50 -75 kg . Check all tyres are at same pressure ( i know you did that first ) . At this point it gets a little more tricky , jack up each side of the van & check you have no play in any wheel bearings , if you do , adjust them until only the slightest movement can be felt when rocking them . Next lower van to ground & attach tow vehicle , leave handbrake ON and try pulling gently forwards with someone looking at the suspension units from behind . The reason for this is due to some units being rubber inserts that wear & allow the pivot arm to move about , allowing the wheel to move forwards & backwards as well as up & down . This can lead to your snaking problem and is your most likely cause . I had one trailer that had these symptoms & the only cure was to replace all 4 tyres with 60 profile tyres of the correct weight rating ( important ! ! ! ! !) , the lower tyre wall height removed any flex in the tyre wall & stopped the snaking immediately . Got that gem from a tyre distributor

[BigMonty]

Thanks Dingo. Your advice is on my agenda this weekend. The tyres are brand new, changed when I bought the van so they should be ok, but I will double check. Nose weight is an issue, but I do have the gas bottles on the front and intend to move the griddle to the front of the trailer as soon as I can find a plumber that answers the phone.
Wheels and suspension will be checked at the weekend.
Thanks again to all that have given advice.

[dingov70]

My pleasure Monty , hope it sorts your problem out . Nothing worse than towing a swinging brick

[axle4]

Check that they are van/ caravan tyres, some people put car tyres on because they are cheaper, not good!
dingov70's advice is very good.

[c_lee]

In caravanning circles it is recommended that the trailers noseweight ( ideally ) should be about 7% of the trailers maximum loaded weight to give best stability, but that that noseweight should never exceed the maximum noseweight figure for the car.
It is not always possible to achieve 7%.

It is bad practice to place weighty items to the rear of the unit as this will tend to allow snaking to be induced at a much lower speed.
Heavy items should be as near to the axle as practicable and low down in the trailer.

A slightly nose down attitude to the trailer is also preferred.

A stabaliser is useful but not intended as the sole means of stabalising a badly loaded trailer.
Load the trailer correctly with the correct noseweight at the correct attitude first.

Hitch height is important too and in modernish vehicles there is a range that is standard, though I don't remember the figures at the moment.
Modernish trailers should also be designed to comply with the range of standard hitch heights of the towball on the car.

Be aware that noseweight will vary as hitch height changes.

Twin axle trailers have more complex solutions than single axle to stabalise the outfit.
I tow single axle so am not totally familiar - though I have read about them some time ago.

A dropper plate may be a partial solution but only when used with a well loaded ( balanced ) trailer.
A dropper plate must not be used as a raiser plate.

The subject can be complex even with a single axle trailer and I recommend reading some of the caravan forums and also recommendations from the two major UK caravanning clubs.

Once you have done that, and assuming approximately the same load is carried during each tow, remember where everything goes to maintain maximum stability and load it the same way each tow.
Despite saying this, I measure my noseweight before each trip unless very local, it is that important for stability if you want to tow at speed.

I have no stability problems towing a 1,215KG ( ~ 1.25 tons ) caravan at a true 60MPH with my V70 and a 75KG ( max my V70 ) noseweight.
I have an Al-Ko hitch stabaliser.

But I went through the full stability checks and corrections initially.
They can be a PITA to do initially and take quite a while, but once done they ( mostly ) apply on subsequent trips.

Colin

[green van man]

If you use a stabiliser hitch then not only must the ball be grease free but scrupulously clean, I wipe mine with a meths soaked cloth before dropping the hitch on it every time, also the inside of the hitch. All paint MUST be removed from a new ball before use or the friction pads will become contaminated and not work as designed, and you will need an extended ball as the hitch is bigger than standard and you run the risk of it fouling the tow vehicle.
New pads and shims are available from the internet, I rebuilt my Alco hitch with genuine pads, front, back and sides for under £50 this year with parts sourced from the internet.

It was due to using the hitch on a new Volvo ball that I had not taken the paint off that the pads needed replacing, I cleaned them but the performance was not what it should of been and the front back ones were worn to just serviceable according to the indicators, so opted for changing the lot. Made a huge difference passing car transporters at motorway speeds, rock steady now whereas you could feel the buffeting previously. As said getting the noseweight and load distribution correct is the main thing but a stabilised hitch helps sort out the buffeting when overtaking large vehicles and tramline induced swaying on lane 1 of many motorways.

Paul.

[c_lee]

Here is the link to a document entitled 'Understanding the Dynamics of Towing'.

http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/library...g-Dynamics.pdf

It is a reference I came across some time ago and it gives in depth details regarding twin axles amongst many other influences.

Colin

EDIT: See this also:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFzrWHTG5e8