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Great brakes, grotty pedal.

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Old Jun 6th, 2021, 22:17   #11
Laird Scooby
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Hi Dave

No, I don't get that but sounds like what happened when my 760 master cylinder went when I was out in the overtaking lane!
Not nice at all! Had similar happen to me in a Merc Sprinter on the M62 going towards Leeds during friday evening rush hour!

There was a fluid leak somewhere and the traffic in front had stopped. I hit the brakes and the pedal disappeared! Luckily lanes 2 and 1 were clear so the hazards went on and i shot across to the hard shoulder.

Not what should be done normally but in what i condered an emergency then (and still do 18 years later) probably about the best thing i could have done. Got off at the next roundabout on the edge of which was a 24/7 repair garage so it was left there and i hitched home.
Boss wasn't happy as i disturbed his friday evening down the pub and he had to pay for the brakes to be fixed but i wasn't going to wait a week up there until it was fixed!

But i digress - it does sound so far like your m/cyl, let us know how you get on with your tests. Was lucky with my Rover the other day, had a spare in the shed which is fitted and working. Needs rebleeding (they're notoriously tricky to bleed and get right first time so was expected) but i have brakes until i do that.
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Old Jun 7th, 2021, 12:37   #12
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If one of the calipers was seized it would provide a lovely hard feeling pedal with very little travel, due mainly to 1/4 of the brakes not moving, very common on the RWD Volvo's too. Now new discs and pads are fitted, the calipers are free and working as intended, this could potentially give a feeling of longer pedal travel and slightly softer feel.
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Old Jun 15th, 2021, 20:21   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
To test for the master cylinder :

Engine off, pump the pedal slowly a couple of times to exhaust the vacuum assistance from the servo.
When the vacuum is exhausted, pedal should feel fairly firm with minimal travel. Put a lot of pressure on the pedal and hold it. If the pedal starts dropping, however slowly, it's almost certainly the master cylinder.

To check for the servo working correctly :

Start the engine (preferably after the above test) and let it idle for a couple of minutes to build up a good vaccum. Switch off.
Wait 3-5 minutes and there should be enough vacuum left to give at least one vacuum assisted press of the pedal.
Once the vacuum is once again exhausted, maintain the pressure on the pedal (not necessarily full presssure, just what was used to check for vacuum assistance) and restart the engine.

As it starts, vaccum assistance should return and the pedal should move down a little to allow for the assistance. It should stop at that point but if it continues to sink towards the floor with little or no reserve travel, it's the master cylinder.

Hi

I ran these checks and the car passed! Does this mean we have eliminated the ''vac hose'' and valve from the servo?

Should I bother getting the brake fluid changed, last changed about 60 thou ago but they tested it and said no water in it?

Next step I am wondering. In a nutshell, excellent brakes but not near enough the top of the pedal like they used to be. (Not because the caliper was siezed on before, definitely wasn't, I know siezed caliper symptoms well!)
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Old Jun 15th, 2021, 21:50   #14
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Brake fluid is "meant" to be changed every 2 years or 20k miles whichever is sooner.
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Old Jun 15th, 2021, 23:00   #15
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Errr, yeah, what Luke said ^^^^^

Thing is, there might not be contamination in the reservoir but you can't test the rest of the fluid and as it's hygroscopic it could be absorbing moisture and they just found a "fresh" bit in the reservoir.
My 760 has done about 15k in 5 years since the last change but is showing 1-2% water, i've just changed the fluid (and master cylinder! ) on my other beast that has had the same fluid for about the same mileage as the Volvo but was about 10 years in there. I'm 99% sure that the contaminated fluid helped the m/cyl to give up the ghost.

As you can see, it's not so much the mileage but the time that has made the difference.

Also one of my first jobs on my 760 was to change the brake fluid as the brakes felt a fit spongey when i first got it. The difference afterwards was night and day, much firmer and more positive with a shorter travel.

I'd strongly advise having the fluid changed as a precaution, especially as you've done 60k on it.
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Old Jun 16th, 2021, 17:51   #16
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Default Elementary question re changing brake fluid.

Am I being naive or is it simply a case of connecting a self bleed kit to the master cylinder reservoir and bleeding at every brake? If so, how much fluid needs to go through the system to ensure it is all changed?
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Old Jun 16th, 2021, 19:19   #17
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Am I being naive or is it simply a case of connecting a self bleed kit to the master cylinder reservoir and bleeding at every brake? If so, how much fluid needs to go through the system to ensure it is all changed?
That's exactly how I do it, you have to bleed them in sequence starting with the N/S rear then O/S rear then N/S front then O/S front. It only takes about half a litre before new fluid is coming through every caliper.
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Old Jun 16th, 2021, 20:12   #18
Laird Scooby
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Am I being naive or is it simply a case of connecting a self bleed kit to the master cylinder reservoir and bleeding at every brake? If so, how much fluid needs to go through the system to ensure it is all changed?
That's about the size of it Ian, if you don't have ABS check the bleed sequence as i think it's different on non-ABS cars.

Also a little tip, use a long bleed tube from the nipple to the receptacle and take it upwards from the caliper a few inches so that as soon as fluid enters it, you have a trap to prevent air getting back in. Also it helps show up bubbles as they come through and makes it easier to see the fresh fluid as well.
On my other beast i took the bleed hose up to the gap between the wing and bumper, the down to the receptacle - seem to recall when i last did the 760 i did the same then.

The Gunsons Eezibleed kit comes with a range of caps, one of which is the correct one for the Volvo master cylinder.. I top up the bottle after each caliper to be on the safe side.
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Old Jun 16th, 2021, 20:41   #19
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The other thing to look at is wear in the pedal and clevis of the master cylinder. It is a much more common problem in 240's but still worth looking at
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Old Jun 16th, 2021, 23:56   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
That's about the size of it Ian, if you don't have ABS check the bleed sequence as i think it's different on non-ABS cars.

Also a little tip, use a long bleed tube from the nipple to the receptacle and take it upwards from the caliper a few inches so that as soon as fluid enters it, you have a trap to prevent air getting back in. Also it helps show up bubbles as they come through and makes it easier to see the fresh fluid as well.
On my other beast i took the bleed hose up to the gap between the wing and bumper, the down to the receptacle - seem to recall when i last did the 760 i did the same then.

The Gunsons Eezibleed kit comes with a range of caps, one of which is the correct one for the Volvo master cylinder.. I top up the bottle after each caliper to be on the safe side.
Thanks Dave.
I’ve had a Gunsons Eezibleed kit for a long time and used it very successfully and do the same as you suggest re routing the bleed tube from the nipple to the jam jar. I read somewhere a long time ago to start with the brake with the longest run of brake pipe from the master cylinder and work from there. I cannot now remember which car it was but on one of my previous cars, because of the way the brake pipes were routed, the offside rear was the longest run, followed by the nearside rear and then the offside front and then the nearside front.
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