Any Advice, Part 2!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Chris152

Thanks Dave, that's great.

I kept hunting and found your full set of instructions, earlier in Alan's thread than I linked to above:

"I've typed this out many times but can't recall a recent thread where i've done it so i'll just do a list of instructions.

Before you start, douse the Jubilee clips involved and the 'stat housing nuts/bolts with releasing/penetrating oil. Let soak for a few days and repeat. Leave a few days more and give a final dousing.
Set the heater controls to "HOT"

Remove the bottom hose from the rad to drain the old coolant - catch it in something for safe disposal.

Refit the bottom hose and refill with plain water. Add a heavy-duty cooling system flush such as Comma X-Stream Flush or similar.

Take it for a drive. Instructions on the flush usually say "Run the engine for 15-20 minutes, drain and reverse flush" Drive about that amount of time out and then return.

Let the engine cool. Remove the 'stat housing and the thermostat. If memory serves correctly, the 'stat on the B21 has the seal around the actual 'stat, basically a grooved "O" ring. Clean the areas in the housing and on the head where the seal sits.
Refit the housing (no 'stat).

Remove the top hose from the rad. Insert your garden hose into the top hose and turn the hose on. Water should start flowing from the rad stub - go and have a coffee!

Come back after your coffee (remember it was clean water in there so not a problem about drains etc) and check to make sure the water is running clear. Move the hose into the expansion tank (can't remember if yours has one but if it does, do this step) and observe the water coming out of the top hose stub. Once clear, turn the hose off and remove the bottom hose from the rad to allow the majority of the clean water to drain. Refit the bottom hose.

Take the new 'stat and smear some silicone grease into the groove of the new seal, fit the seal around the 'stat so the 'stat sits in the internal groove. Smear the outside of the seal with silicone grease too. Remove the 'stat housing and fit the new 'stat, jiggle valve (if fitted) uppermost. Refit the housing and tighten the fasteners.

With the cooling system now intact (but empty) add about 4.5L of concentrated Etheylene Glycol antifreeze to the system.

I can't remember the total capacity, i think it's 9.6L on yours so you'll need 4.8L antifreeze if so, check the capacity and work out 50% of the total and put that amount of EG conc antifreeze in.

Top up with water to the "MAX" level. Refit the cap and take it for a drive, return home, park preferably facing slightly uphill and leave to cool, overnight if possible.
Check the level the next morning and top up with water if necessary. Remember you've already added enough antifreeze, any shortfall in content needs water only."

Hope you don't mind me copying and pasting to here!

Ah, you found it Chris,
I think I'd just cut and posted the instructions from something Dave (LS) had sent me as an aide memoire.
Alan

[Chris152]

Thanks Alan - I'd been wondering the same, my concern is, not really knowing what we're doing/ need, once it's off the car we can't drive it and that could end up being a long time with me at the helm! It's a shame, as I don't want the lad driving it with heavy/ inconsistent steering weight. But thinking about it now, it may be worth just pulling the new one apart to see what's inside - if that goes well, we could be on for a rebuild!

Dave - I went ahead and ordered the Eurocarparts one, free delivery, and it'll be here long before the next freeze unless something's gone very wrong with the forecasts!

Thanks both,
C

[Chris152]

Originally Posted by Othen

I'm sorry to hear about the PAS pump, I've never come across a situation like that.

The garage I took it to did all that I'd expect (following advice/ reading), stood back to look at it and said 'That should be off now!'.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Chris152

The garage I took it to did all that I'd expect (following advice/ reading), stood back to look at it and said 'That should be off now!'.

I can imagine Chris, I've never come across anything like that.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Chris152

Thanks Alan - I'd been wondering the same, my concern is, not really knowing what we're doing/ need, once it's off the car we can't drive it and that could end up being a long time with me at the helm! It's a shame, as I don't want the lad driving it with heavy/ inconsistent steering weight. But thinking about it now, it may be worth just pulling the new one apart to see what's inside - if that goes well, we could be on for a rebuild!

Dave - I went ahead and ordered the Eurocarparts one, free delivery, and it'll be here long before the next freeze unless something's gone very wrong with the forecasts!

Thanks both,
C

I see your point Chris, you and your boy don't want to be without the car for too long.

I'm guessing you could not return the replacement pump now, so you don't have anything to lose, and lots to gain, in taking it apart.

I think I remember posting an illustrated parts diagram from the BofH for you, and it looked quite simple. Why don't you and your son take it apart on the kitchen table (it won't have any fluid in it) so you can see how it works and boost your confidence. If that goes well then maybe take the old pump apart and see if you can find out what is wrong with it. If it is not leaking then the most likely cause of loss of flow is probably a bearing allowing the tolerance around the impeller to get too large. Bearings are cheap and easy to replace. I would not be surprised if the internals of the new pump are much the same as the old one, so you might even be able to swap some parts over and get it working much better.

If you manage to improve the old pump with some new parts (and particularly if you salvage them from the replacement) that would be entirely in the spirit of maintaining older cars. You and your son will surely have become proper members of the 'old car bodger's club'.

:-)

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Chris152

Thanks Alan - I'd been wondering the same, my concern is, not really knowing what we're doing/ need, once it's off the car we can't drive it and that could end up being a long time with me at the helm! It's a shame, as I don't want the lad driving it with heavy/ inconsistent steering weight. But thinking about it now, it may be worth just pulling the new one apart to see what's inside - if that goes well, we could be on for a rebuild!

Dave - I went ahead and ordered the Eurocarparts one, free delivery, and it'll be here long before the next freeze unless something's gone very wrong with the forecasts!

Thanks both,
C

... another thought Chris,

Why not just fit the new PAS pump with the wrong size pulley (might need a bit of a tap to get it straight?) and a slightly longer (or is it shorter) belt? It won't make much difference to the pump running it a bit slower (or faster).
Belts are cheap and available in lots of sizes, you could just measure the size you need with a piece of string (or calculate the difference in circumference between the old and new).

Alan

PS. Here is that diagram of the PAS pump, it is pretty simple:



... the only parts likely to wear out might be the bearing - part #8 (which will probably be something like a 6000 series caged roller) and the seal #5 (which is probably just an ordinary nitride shaft seal) - both would be available locally to you and cheaply (and you might well be able to remove them from the new pump if you don't fit it as I suggested above). You might have to replace a few O rings (get a box of mixed sizes), but there isn't much to go wrong with such a simple machine.

[Laird Scooby]

Interesting diagram Alan, thanks! I must exhume my HBoF again and see what Fantasy they show for my PAS pump!
If that spring (or its equivalent part in mine) and valve is replaceable, i might just do it or if they are NLA, remove the plug and pre-load the spring with a washer or two to increase the pressure slightly as no doubt the spring will have grown weak over the 32 years and 228k miles.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Interesting diagram Alan, thanks! I must exhume my HBoF again and see what Fantasy they show for my PAS pump!
If that spring (or its equivalent part in mine) and valve is replaceable, i might just do it or if they are NLA, remove the plug and pre-load the spring with a washer or two to increase the pressure slightly as no doubt the spring will have grown weak over the 32 years and 228k miles.

The spring and plunger affair will be a pressure relief valve, so if you suspect the pressure is a bit down on yours it would be a good idea to fix it. I'd be tempted to just pre-load it with a few washers to see if that improves matters (which would cost nothing and take almost no time) - then if it does try to acquire the new parts.

:-)

PS. Chris, if you read this you could try the same. I don't know what is wrong with your pump (you probably say above, but I've forgotten) - if it isn't leaking and is just down on a bit of pressure you could try packing out part #20 with a spacer and see if that improves matters. If it does you have diagnosed the problem and just need a new spring.

It is such a simple machine there aren't many other things to go wrong.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

The spring and plunger affair will be a pressure relief valve, so if you suspect the pressure is a bit down on yours it would be a good idea to fix it. I'd be tempted to just pre-load it with a few washers to see if that improves matters (which would cost nothing and take almost no time) - then if it does try to acquire the new parts.

:-)

PS. Chris, if you read this you could try the same. I don't know what is wrong with your pump (you probably say above, but I've forgotten) - if it isn't leaking and is just down on a bit of pressure you could try packing out part #20 with a spacer and see if that improves matters. If it does you have diagnosed the problem and just need a new spring.

It is such a simple machine there aren't many other things to go wrong.

Exactly my thoughts Alan and i also thought of suggesting the same mod to Chris. However it sounds like he's between a rock and a hard place as far as the PAS pump goes?



That said if the only pump capable of some sort of function due to the pulley situation is the original, it could well be worth a try!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Exactly my thoughts Alan and i also thought of suggesting the same mod to Chris. However it sounds like he's between a rock and a hard place as far as the PAS pump goes?



That said if the only pump capable of some sort of function due to the pulley situation is the original, it could well be worth a try!

You may well be right Dave. I’ve slightly lost track of Chris’s project car, I’ll look back at the posts and remind myself later.

I’ve forgotten what the problem was with the old PAS pump, and hence why he bought the new one. I should think there are two options, depending on what was wrong with the old pump, either:

A. Fit the new pump with a longer/shorter belt. It might need a little bit of fettling, but that would work fine.

B. Pack out the pressure relief valve on the old pump like you suggested and see if it works. If it does then that is the problem, so maybe just refurbish the old pump (a bearing and a nitride seal would cost about £6).

... other options exist of course, but they involve throwing money at the problem (so not what I would do, being a tightwad).

Just my thoughts.

Alan