Wheels/Tyres: XC90 Nokian tyre mounting problem

[rkv]

Hi:

I have a 2003 XC90 on which I had been running Nokian WR SUV 255/55R18 tyres and had been quite happy particularly with winter performance. I have gone through two sets of those and have purchased Nokian WR G2 SUVs in the same size. The local MyTyre fitment centre claims the WR G2 SUVs do not fit the same Volvo wheel. Nokian claims it should fit.

The installation shop and I have both been in touch with Nokian. The shop seems to believe that what Nokian calls a mudguard is preventing the wheel from fitting smoothly against the bead. Has anyone else installed this same size on Volvo alloy wheels?

I'm thinking of trying a different installer. I was really looking forward to trying the G2s and I sort of believe Nokian when they say the WR G2 SUV should fit any wheel which the WR SUV fit. Ideally, I would like to find an installer that does Road Force wheel balancing. Does anyone know where one can get Hunter Road Force wheel balancing within an hour of central London? Preferably west?

Any other suggestions?

(my first post, but I have found these forums to be very helpful. Thanks.)

[wolfie308]

Hi

I have Nokian WR Sport utility 235/60/R18 on my03 XC90 with no problem. I can't see the small increase in size with yours should be a problem

HTH

[rkv]

An update on what has become my tyre saga, the last half of this post, after the asterisks, is really about internet tyre purchases and finally a wheel balancing recommendation. Apologies if I'm too long winded on this. I guess there's a bit of venting after living with this for the past month.

First as to "wolfie308's" comment, tyre size is not the issue. I have already had two sets of Nokian WR SUV 255/55R18 mounted on XC90 on the stock wheels. However, this is my first set of the G2 update to this tyre model. The first installer seemed to have two problems. What Nokian refers to as a mudguard was causing him problems with seating the bead. The second was he was getting really high readings for weight imbalance. After several email exchanges with Nokian I decided to try a second installer.

Also after reading up on balancing, I decided I needed to find an installer who used Hunter GSP9700 balancing equipment. I eventually found "Speedway Autocare" in Swiss Cottage NW London.

Prior to visiting Speedway I had exchanged several emails with Nokian and had their view on how much imbalance was allowable. As it turns out the first installer found all four tyres to be above that limit. The potential risk for me was that the Hunter machine claims to be able to balance a wheel with 30% less weight. If you look at Hunter's website, they are pushing quality of balance, speed of balance, and cost of weight savings as the big advantages of their equipment.

However, even with Hunter's reduced weight needs one of the tyres was twice the limit Nokian had given me. Two others were above it. And the fourth was right at the margin. Although, Speedway's assessment was that I would feel vibrations between 60 and 70mph. Hopefully, Nokian and Mytyre would find this unacceptable for a "V" speed rated tyre.

The odd thing about this is that the tyres were manufactured in three different weeks. It seems really improbable that I could randomly get four tyres which were so badly out of balance. One installer speculated that the tyres must have previously been rejected by others. However, no one will admit that at this point.

Nokian has advised me that their typical imbalance is well below these limits and since I liked the winter traction characteristics of the prior generation of this tyre I figured I would give them one more chance. Also my current set of tyres are balanced with 10 to 30 grams of weight. So well below the 200+ grams I was seeing on the worst of the new tyres.

I am now going through the process of shipping all four tyres back to Mytyre.co.uk, really Delti in Germany, and having them ship me a replacement set. Hopefully this will have a positive ending. I'll post again when it is resolved.

******* Mytyre and Hunter wheel balancing side bar **********

What follows ares some comments with respect to Mytyre and Hunter wheel balancing.

As to Mytyre, their customer service people have been very responsive. Phone calls and emails are answered promptly. I also recognise that their business has some challenges. That is the installation of the tyre is completely out of their control. Furthermore, the installers are generally competing with them in that they might like to sell you a tyre. For example, in my case, in prior years I had used the same installer but they did not stock winter tyres. So they were happy to install the tyres coming from Mytyres. This year the original installer pointed out that they now stock winter tyres and had what they considered to be better winter tyres. Although, very few reviews would seem to support that proposition with respect to the tyre they were recommending.

My area of concern is the Mytyre's defect claim policy may be altering purchaser behaviour to the detriment of subsequent purchasers. I had not fully considered this before my order or reporting the problem to Mytyre. That is if I request a replacement, they will send me replacement tyres promptly. Upon the original tyres be returned to them they ship them off to Nokian and if Nokian should disagree as to there being a defect, then Mytyres want to charge me for the original set of tyres and ship back to me what would then be a second set of tyres which I no longer need.

Note this time period will be outside both their two week and thirty day cancellation periods so you evidently can not just request them to keep the second set of tyres or just charge you a handling and restocking fee. In my case I've gone back and forth with Nokian and had two installers document the weight imbalance they were seeing so hopefully there is very little chance of Nokian rejecting that there is a defect. However there is a risk of paying twice.

One of the things I've discussed with Mytyre is whether the asymmetry in their defect claim policy versus their cancellation policy, that is you can cancel and get a full refund while by reporting a defect you run the risk of getting two sets of tyres and paying twice, has led to some clients cancelling orders rather than reporting a defect. They seem to think this is not likely. Although, from reading their website I'm not certain others have not concluded they should not just cancel. Given what Nokian claims to be their normal defect rates, of course it's not likely they would report a high number, this would be one explanation as to how one could windup with the anomalous situation of four defective tyres manufactured on three different dates being in a single shipment.

I've purchased tyres on the web around six times. These were from Mytyres and previously from TireRack in the U.S.. The later because I could source a tyre which just wasn't available at that time in UK or Europe. On all prior occasions I have been completely satisfied with the process and the result. As to my next purchase, I suspect I will still consider the web. However, if my favourite installer can get the tyre I want the I will most likely go that route as long as I'm not being too gouged on price. I suspect I will only use the web for difficult to find tyres. Which I seem to frequently stumble upon given my tastes in tyres.

If there is a positive side to this experience it is in learning of and experiencing Hunter Road Force wheel balancing. This is currently available on Hunter's GSP9700 equipment. They have websites with additional information here:

http://www.hunter.com/pub/product/ba...T/4159T-02.htm

http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/images/fl.../allmovies.cfm

After the failed installation attempt, I had my old tyres rebalanced on this equipment and was pleasantly surprised by the improvement in ride quality at speed. The day after the balancing I had a quick trip to continental europe where I probably totalled three or four hours of 100+mph driving over the course of two days. My XC90 never felt so smooth at those speeds. These were on roads on which I regularly drive so I felt I could really attribute the change to the different wheel balancing.

Also, the Hunter equipment is very fast and the screen is very readable from thirty or forty feet away. Therefore you can watch the installation without the installer feeling like you are looking over his shoulder and you can readily see the exact amount of weight that the balancer is calculating for the inside and outside of the tyre. I highly recommend you try this wheel balancer, particularly if you experience any form of vibration at speed. Until I hear of something better, I plan on seeking out installers with this equipment.

Hopefully, I'll have a new set of tyres later this week and then find out in a month whether Nokian agrees with the assessment of the installers I used.

[rkv]

Couldn't send PM in response to question from forum member, so I am updating as a post.

This problem was resolved satisfactorily in that I eventually did receive new tyres and they were all balanced an mounted successfully. Also, Nokian accepted all of the tyres I returned to MyTyres as defects.

Nokian did provide me with the weight limit which they considered to be the maximum accepted out of balance. The originally returned tyres all exceeded that limit. Due to the hassles of sending tyres back and forth I eventually did keep one tyre which was 1 gram over Nokian's limit. It did balance and has run smoothly since.

Before I purchase my next set of tyres, I hope to pickup a spare set of wheels for my XC90. That will greatly simplify the process if I purchase the tyres via the web.

Lastly, I continue to be impressed by both the Nokian WR G2 SUVs, they are noticeably better in all respects than the prior generation from Nokian. Also, I am absolutely sold on Hunter GSP9700 wheel balancing as well.

[AB-UK]

rkv,
The WRs had 11mm of tread, whereas I believe the G2s have only 8mm.
Has this made a difference to the wear, and performance, especially in mud/snow in your experience?
I was very happy with my WRs, but I recently sold my XC90, with 7mm of tread left on each tyre after 18 months of use. My new XC90 has Pirelli Zeros, which I imagine will have to be replaced in 12 months (approx 12K miles). If the G2s are as good as the WRs I'll be looking to get a set of them instead.

[diy]

Do Nokian approve a 255 on a 7.5J rim?

[rkv]

As to DIY question, yes the Nokian website puts the acceptable range as 7-9".

As to AB-UK's questions. I find that the WR G2s strictly dominate the WR. The Nokian website shows the G2 as having 2/32"s less tread. I have not noticed a difference in light snow, 4" to 6". On all other conditions I definitely find the G2 to be superior. Most notably at high speed. It seems much more stable and capable of reacting to steering inputs and road surface irregularities in a more controlled manner.

In terms of my post above, I never could figure out why the first installer, even though they had previously installed two sets of WRs, could not mount the G2s. One suspicion I had was that the shop had previously not carried winter tyres. This time they seemed less happy to deal with what they considered a winter tyre from Mytyres and wanted to push brands which they carried. Although, ultimately I was much happier with the new shop and their Hunter roadsurface wheel balancing. I really think it makes a difference.

[RoyMacDonald]

Where did you get the tyres balanced in the end? I'd like to take a look at what they offer.

[rkv]

Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald

Where did you get the tyres balanced in the end? I'd like to take a look at what they offer.

I used http://www.speedwayautocare.com/ in Swiss Cottage. I believe they had two balancing machines only one of which was the Hunter GSP9700. I asked for them to use that specific machine. I also told the technician I was sensitive to how much weight they were placing on the wheels. I did not by the tyres from this shop. I have no idea as to what brands they carry.

Hunter's claims regarding the benefits of their equipment may be found here:

http://www.hunter.com/balancer/index.cfm and here

http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/features/how.cfm