General: car electronics

[Rob76]

Car Electronics
Because of the problems I have had with my V60 D2 I have been ploughing thru the Forum for battery and charging problems.
In all models they are some very disappointing faults in this vein.
So what are the problems listed on the forum;
Mainly low battery warnings
No low battery warnings
No start stop
Intermittent start stop
Battery discharging after car not being used for a few days
Sudden failure of battery
Dashboard faults lamps suddenly appear without warning
These are the main items listed.
It appears that some of the faults are due to an ignorance on the part of the owners. This is not a criticism of the owners but is due to the over complicated systems dependant on the battery which are built in to the car and directly a criticism of all manufactures.
It is unthinkable that manufactures should put out a bulletin to say make sure you charge your battery every so often with a specialist charger when you have paid lots of money for a so called reliable car.
The car manufacturers are trying to be all things to all mechanisms (yes mechanisms) In other words they are overcomplicating the design.
In cars, electronics have a rough life. Such as extreme temperature changes, excessive vibration, changing humidity i.e. Moisture rain etc. These are but a few of the worst things for modern electronics and wiring connections, so it is inevitable that there will be a high percentage of failures.
So what is the answer? Simplification, this applies to all makes of cars; one electronic box containing all sensor inputs placed in a position where it is easily replaced and cheap. Proper wiring connectors, Sensors which are easily reached and replaced. No crawling under the dashboard, under seats and engines, removing lots of covers, and a proper monitoring system.
Car manufacturers are still making cars as they have in the past, and adding electronics as an afterthought. Instead of placing the electronics and then designing the mechanics around them. In other words “Ergonomics”. It is after all humans who have to fix the car.
They are still using electronics as they were used many years ago and they are just not reliable enough for modern use. It’s time for radical thinking.

[john.wigley]

OR, we could dispense with the overcomplication of modern cars and return to a period when we happily switched on our own wipers when it began to rain, or our lights when it got dark! After all, we managed very well like that for years. The risk in pursuing such a course, of course, is that if we took it too far, we would all end up driving around in Austin Sevens or model 'T' Fords.

I feel that many might happily do without some of the arguably nonessential technology that manufacturers load onto cars today, in return for a lower purchase price and simpler, easier and, above all, cheaper repairs and servicing. There has to be a happy medium somewhere among the plethora of technology in the world today.

Regards, John.

[Rob76]

I agree; we are at the mercy of what is largely money conscious manufacturers. We don't want to go back to the Austin 7 principle but we need to try and get car manufacturers to understand we don't always want unnecessary unreliable gizmos.

[Simmy]

it sound like your battery is nearing the end of its life the stopstart feature is disabled when the system senses low battery condition. lots of owners buy the wrong car for there type of usage. dpf s being one of things that don't suit certain types of driving volvo cars are very finicky about battery condition i would recommend a new battery before the car throws a fault which could potentially cost hundreds to remedy.

[Rob76]

I think you have missed the point of the post

[Familyman 90]

Fi nd a manufacturer of modern cars that doesn't similarly suffer. Volvo are actually one of the better ones.

[Simmy]

not really i was just explaining why you have had all your electrical woes its up to. you how you interpret the reply's. The days of when you could just park a car and leave it for weeks and expect it to perform as you left it are gone . its just the way modern cars are and that's one of the main reasons i don't own one.

[pinballdave]

The electronics in modern cars is usually very reliable. Of course if you search forums you are going to find all of the 'strange' faults that are hard to diagnose, because that's where all the people who don't understand electronics go when they have a problem, but in reality they are few and far between.

If you know how the electronic systems in a car work, and have suitable test equipment, then they are pretty straight forward to repair. Yes some sensors and modules are in places that are awkward to get to, but that's because they have to be where the thing they measure or control is located, and the general public don't want the interior of their car covered in visible cables and heatsinks.

The main problem is that the general public (and many garages) don't have the knowledge or equipment to deal with the electronics. You can't expect to diagnose a fault on a modern car with only a basic multimeter and screwdriver with a bulb in it. As a minimum you need an oscilloscope, a logic/protocol analyser, and some suitable breakout boxes for the systems you are working on, and don't get me started about code readers that just give generic Pxxxx codes.

You wouldn't expect a plumber to be able to repair your TV set. Even if it's just a joint that needs re-soldering, the plumbers torch is not an appropriate tool for surface mounted electronic components. So why do people expect different with cars?

[Pidgeonpost]

I don't mind that cars are more complicated than they used to be, as some of that complexity goes a long way towards keeping us alive in an accident. I DO mind about the additional complexity required just to give us gizmos we could manage without and which cause a disproportionate amount of irritation when they go wrong. I wonder how reliable some of these systems are going to be in 10 years time - not that manufacturers are going to be overly worried by then.
Admittedly there are many owners who never experience problems with the electronics, but those that do naturally get pretty steamed up when forced to take it a garage where a 'Good morning, Sir' might cost you £100+ before they plug in any diagnostic kit.

[GSS]

As my late father once said:

"The more there is on a car, the more there is to go wrong."

One reason why I have driven Ladas for over forty years. IF anything did happen to go wrong with one it was easily fixable and cheap. My worst breakdown in one was a Riva saloon with around 124,000 miles on the clock back in the mid 1990's. The condenser on the distributor failed. Cost me 3.25 from the AA to get going again. (Would only have cost 2.80 from a Lada dealer!) That was the only breakdown I had with that car. Had it for 10 years, covered over 180,000 miles in it and eventually sold it back to the Russians when I changed to a Lada Riva estate.