240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[john.wigley]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I remember a relative, while under the affluence of incahol, managed to wrap a Singer Chamois round a lamp post, parked car and a post box!

For anyone too young to remember the Singer Chamois, it was an Imp Coupe with single headlamps, badge-engineered to be a model in its own right. Its "posh" brother was the Sunbeam Stiletto that had twin headlamps and i think, twin carbs so was quite sporty compared to the rest of the range.

Right again, 'L.S.'. Rootes and, later, Chrysler were, like B.M.C., not averse to a spot of badge engineering. The Stiletto was undoubtedly a very pretty car but also rather impractical. Its coupe body sacrificed the convenience of the saloon's opening rear window and the back seat was only usable by the severely vertically challenged.

The Sport used the saloon body with Sunbeam refinements and, as you say, boasted twin Stombergs, a hotter cam and an oil cooler as standard. Having a rear engine and rad, the standard cooling system was marginal at best even when new - the all alloy motor was prone to over-heating and blown HGs were common. The rear mounted engine also did nothing for its handling vs a Mini Cooper. A Stiletto / Sport was identifiable from the rear by its louvered engine cover.

I always considered it an unwise economy by the manufacturers not to fit helicoil inserts to all external threads on the engine on the production line. Very early Imps had a pneumatic throttle which was quickly dropped as it was problematic due to leaking - often from new. On the plus side, they were equipped with grease nipples on the king pins, which, if religeously lubricated every 5K miles would last almost indefinitely. Later models had sealed for life units which seldom lasted more than 15 - 20K at best. Ask me how I know this?!

While a well set up Imp could be a lot of fun, I still think the Mini Cooper was a better car all round!

Regards, John.

Edit: And then there was the Bond 875 - remember those? Same engine in a car weighing only 8 CWT with only three wheels. It was advisable to carry a spare pair of underpants in one of those, especially if driving in the wet! J.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

Right again, 'L.S.'. Rootes and, later, Chrysler were, like B.M.C., not averse to a spot of badge engineering. The Stiletto was undoubtedly a very pretty car but also rather impractical. Its coupe body sacrificed the convenience of the saloon's opening rear window and the back seat was only usable by the severely vertically challenged.

The Sport used the saloon body with Sunbeam refinements and, as you say, boasted twin Stombergs, a hotter cam and an oil cooler as standard. Having a rear engine and rad, the standard cooling system was marginal at best even when new - the all alloy motor was prone to over-heating and blown HGs were common. The rear mounted engine also did nothing for its handling vs a Mini Cooper. A Stiletto / Sport was identifiable from the rear by its louvered engine cover.

I always considered it an unwise economy by the manufacturers not to fit helicoil inserts to all external threads on the engine on the production line. Very early Imps had a pneumatic throttle which was quickly dropped as it was problematic due to leaking - often from new. On the plus side, they were equipped with grease nipples on the king pins, which, if religeously lubricated every 5K miles would last almost indefinitely. Later models had sealed for life units which seldom lasted more than 15 - 20K at best. Ask me how I know this?!

While a well set up Imp could be a lot of fun, I still think the Mini Cooper was a better car all round!

Regards, John.

Edit: And then there was the Bond 875 - remember those? Same engine in a car weighing only 8 CWT with only three wheels. It was advisable to carry a spare pair of underpants in one of those, especially if driving in the wet! J.

What an interesting discussion: I have quite fond memories of my father's Hillman Husky, although I was probably only about 12 when he crashed it (the front of the motor car would have been quite flimsy and easy to write off).

There was nothing much wrong with the Imp series design, but unfortunately it never really caught on. With a fair wind it might have become a cult motorcar like the VW Beetle or the Mini, both of which were full of design flaws somehow overcome by development and compromise. I think the Imp's main problem was that of British industry in the 1960s and 70s: lack of quality control, the motor cars were thrown together and broke very often.

The problem with threads directly into aluminium parts stripping was mostly due to owners and garages being used to cast iron blocks and still doing screws up to 90 NM (in today's parlance). Cutting threads direct into aluminium had been normal practice with motorcycles and aero engines for decades, but the British car market wasn't quite ready for owners and garages reading the manual in 1963.



PS. There is a Singer Chamois for sale at 12 grand here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204365546...Bk9SR_SL4YagYg

... and £600 worth of unfinished project for sale at £2,950:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175771742...Bk9SR_SL4YagYg

... the world has gone mad

PPS. Apologies to Kelton, this is your thread now, but I should have warned you discussion does tend to meander a bit sometimes

[Dippydog]

I remember the Bond 875 well,although not my car we had eight of us in one of those once

[john.wigley]

Originally Posted by Dippydog

I remember the Bond 875 well,although not my car we had eight of us in one of those once

You were clearly all very good friends, 'Dd'! J.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

PS. There is a Singer Chamois for sale at 12 grand here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204365546...Bk9SR_SL4YagYg

... and £600 worth of unfinished project for sale at £2,950:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175771742...Bk9SR_SL4YagYg

... the world has gone mad

PPS. Apologies to Kelton, this is your thread now, but I should have warned you discussion does tend to meander a bit sometimes

Those are not Singer Chamois as i remember them This is more like it, apologies to whoever owns that photo for "borrowing" it :

https://flic.kr/p/9aCjii

As far as i knew back then, they were only a Coupe, seems there was a saloon version but to me, that would be a Hillman Imp in disguise.

[loki_the_glt]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Those are not Singer Chamois as i remember them This is more like it, apologies to whoever owns that photo for "borrowing" it :

https://flic.kr/p/9aCjii

As far as i knew back then, they were only a Coupe, seems there was a saloon version but to me, that would be a Hillman Imp in disguise.

The "Shammy" was usually a saloon rather than a coupe, leastways around the west of Scotland, with a superior trim spec to the Imp. Handling could be improved by the time-honoured method of adding a large bag of cement to the luggage area, though you couldn't then put anything larger than a loaf of bread in said area!

One other popular handling mod(?) was to fit some Viva front arms, presumably from the HA-series. (This was over 50 years ago hence my memory of precisely what parts and why.)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by loki_the_glt

The "Shammy" was usually a saloon rather than a coupe, leastways around the west of Scotland, with a superior trim spec to the Imp. Handling could be improved by the time-honoured method of adding a large bag of cement to the luggage area, though you couldn't then put anything larger than a loaf of bread in said area!

One other popular handling mod(?) was to fit some Viva front arms, presumably from the HA-series. (This was over 50 years ago hence my memory of precisely what parts and why.)

I wonder if, like many different cars, certain models sold better in certain area than others so the saloon was more popular in west Scotland and the coupe more popular in south England/Home Counties areas?

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Those are not Singer Chamois as i remember them This is more like it, apologies to whoever owns that photo for "borrowing" it :

https://flic.kr/p/9aCjii

As far as i knew back then, they were only a Coupe, seems there was a saloon version but to me, that would be a Hillman Imp in disguise.

You have exceeded my knowledge of 'Rootes Group cars of the 1960s' by a long way already Dave. You may well be right, the 'Singer' badge on the bonnet looks original, I wonder whether Rootes Group might have just tinkered with the badge engineering to get sales going back in the day?

[Othen]

Originally Posted by loki_the_glt

The "Shammy" was usually a saloon rather than a coupe, leastways around the west of Scotland, with a superior trim spec to the Imp. Handling could be improved by the time-honoured method of adding a large bag of cement to the luggage area, though you couldn't then put anything larger than a loaf of bread in said area!

One other popular handling mod(?) was to fit some Viva front arms, presumably from the HA-series. (This was over 50 years ago hence my memory of precisely what parts and why.)

Thank you for that Alf,
That sort of confirmed my suspicions that Rootes Group may have just stuck on whichever badge suited different markets.
Now that you mention it, I think I do remember my father driving round with a paving slab under the bonnet.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

You have exceeded my knowledge of 'Rootes Group cars of the 1960s' by a long way already Dave. You may well be right, the 'Singer' badge on the bonnet looks original, I wonder whether Rootes Group might have just tinkered with the badge engineering to get sales going back in the day?

As both John and Alf alluded to, badge engineering was rife back in the 60s.

The "Arrow" Hunter apeared as the Hillman Minx and Hunter, Singer Vogue (no Madonna jokes please!) and Humber Sceptre in that order of ascending luxury.
The Imp is covered above but as John also mentioned BMC, a few of their models - the ADO 16 best known as the Austin or Morris 11/1300 but also as the Wolseley 1300, MG 1300, Van Den Plas (that even got fold-down picnic tables on the back of the front seats! ) 1300 and probably a couple more incarnations i've forgotten.
Then there was the Morris/Austin "oxbridge" (Morris Oxford and Austin Cambridge) also sold as a Wolseley (16/80 or something, can't recall) and the MG Midget that was also sold as an Austin-Healy Sprite (with minor body mods, not sure on the engine), Triumph 1300, 1500 and 1500FWD, all built on the same bodyshell, later became the Toledo and then morphed into the Dolomite with 1300 versions initially being called Toledo then Dolomite.

There were countless other cars as well, Ford had the Mk1 Granada which also sold in a less well appointed variant as the Consul, Jaguar Series XJ Series cars sold as the Jag XJ6/12 and Daimler Sovereign (Double-Six for the V12 variant) to name but 2 (or is it 4?) more badge-engineered cars.

The early 70s with the oil crisis saw a big rationalisation across many manufacturers as people were looking for smaller, more fuel efficient cars and less choice, they wanted to know if the basic model would do the necessary mpg and still carry the family and luggage so the choice diminished to the core cars.

Now through economy of scale manufacturing and many manufacturers selling their engines for use by other manufacturers (gerboxes too) we have yet more badge engineering and engines used across several different manufacturers.
Like a giant Technical Lego kit for the manufacturers with development cost borne by others.