240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Bugjam1999

Hmmm, I don’t think ‘easy’ is how I’d describe it- ‘possible’ perhaps, or ‘doable if you have no other options’.

This approach might be ok on a ramp, but certainly isn’t a recipe for fun on a driveway with the car up on stands. Perhaps I’m getting old, but as much as I’m keen to tinker with cars I’m also keen to enjoy it and where I can avoid lying on the floor with rust falling in my eyes, trying to do something with limited access then I’ll take the easier route, to keep it fun and avoid it feeling like an arduous task.

You may be over-thinking the engine out approach- it’s really very easy and quick, even single handed, with an engine hoist and a load leveller. Even with a break for coffee you should be able to get the engine out and on a stand in an hour or two, meaning the one day refresh of the rings etc should be doable within a long day- or two days, again to keep it fun.

That’s my take on it anyway.

Cheers

Many thanks,

First hand experience is always best. The BofH gives the impression that removing the sump in situ is pretty easy (see my note to Clifford above) once the left side is lifted up a bit. This is exactly why I'm asking the question now, and not when I'm half way through the job in a year's time!

Super.

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

In the front of the HBoF (Haynes Book of Fantasy) Alan, it usually says which cars were used in the preparation of the manual. Bearing in mind Volvo continually changed things, knowing Haynes' penchant for getting the earliest possible model to produce the book etc, i'd hazard a guess that is a very early model (1975/6 or thereabouts) and things may well have changed for yours.

That said, as i mentioned before, i have seen the big ends changed (1980 244 B21A) with the engine and box in situ but it took the guy several days and the process of fitting the new shells with Plastigage, torquing the shells up, turning the engine over then removing, checking the Plastigage, adjusting the shells with abrasive things, cleaning then refitting with a new piece of Plastigage and repeating would have been much easier with the engine on the bench and therefore much quicker.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

That's essentially how I feel too, 'Bugjam1999'! 50 odd years ago, I thought nothing of pulling a Mini engine and gearbox with a mate and a basic tripod and block'n'tackle, grabbing a wad and then slotting in it's replacement in a day, and then buying said mate a pint in the pub before closing time. But, as you so rightly say, age does have a habit of catching up on you. Now, I have no compunction about using a trusted garage to undertake those jobs that I am neither no longer able nor willing to do myself.

Alan clearly has relative youth and enthusiasm on his side, and I greatly respect what he has both achieved thus far and also has planned for the RB in the future. He also has the benefit of that lovely new engine hoist (which I would have given my Eye Teeth for back in the day) just crying out to be used! Let's not deny him that pleasure; besides, I'm also looking forward to enjoying it vicariously when he posts his report in this thread!

Regards, John.

Hi John,

You know me too well: this is perhaps a job that doesn't really need doing, but I'm looking forward to it. Either way (engine out or just lifted a bit) the engine hoist will be used - and you are right, I'm itching to find a reason to use it :-)

PS. I remember pulling a Mini (old type) motor and gearbox out with just a rope sling and a big piece of wood between my school mate Phil's and my shoulders, swapping the gearbox for a better one (that didn't jump out of first gear) and putting it back in (I think the same day). That was my first car, I'd have been 18, still at school and certainly couldn't afford a garage (I recall buying the replacement engine/gearbox from Phil's dad for a tenner).

[Stephen Edwin]

Originally Posted by Othen

.... you are right, I'm itching to find a reason to use it :-) ....

Indeed yes. In fact. Someone said that, twice in one post, very recently ....



I would lay odds that you will take the engine and gearbox out ...
I would do that, in your shoes with your perspective.



Stephen

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[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

In the front of the HBoF (Haynes Book of Fantasy) Alan, it usually says which cars were used in the preparation of the manual. Bearing in mind Volvo continually changed things, knowing Haynes' penchant for getting the earliest possible model to produce the book etc, i'd hazard a guess that is a very early model (1975/6 or thereabouts) and things may well have changed for yours.

That said, as i mentioned before, i have seen the big ends changed (1980 244 B21A) with the engine and box in situ but it took the guy several days and the process of fitting the new shells with Plastigage, torquing the shells up, turning the engine over then removing, checking the Plastigage, adjusting the shells with abrasive things, cleaning then refitting with a new piece of Plastigage and repeating would have been much easier with the engine on the bench and therefore much quicker.

Unfortunately my BofH doesn't give the year of the car worked on, just that it was a 244 loaned by John Tallis Motors. I've just looked through my Autodata manual, and it recommends exactly the same procedure for removing the sump and using access via there for the big end bearing and thus the rings.

I think my next port of call will be You Tube - see if I can find some actual pictures of someone doing the job by lifting the LHS engine mount and taking the sump off that way. Fortunately I've left myself plenty of time!

:-)

PS. Now, this is a good post about removing a AW71 box from a 740. The BofH advises removing the auto box before lifting the engine due to its weight - which sounds like a sensible plan (the motor without a box would be trivial to remove):

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showp...25&postcount=1

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Unfortunately my BofH doesn't give the year of the car worked on, just that it was a 244 loaned by John Tallis Motors. I've just looked through my Autodata manual, and it recommends exactly the same procedure for removing the sump and using access via there for the big end bearing and thus the rings.

I think my next port of call will be You Tube - see if I can find some actual pictures of someone doing the job by lifting the LHS engine mount and taking the sump off that way. Fortunately I've left myself plenty of time!

:-)

PS. Now, this is a good post about removing a AW71 box from a 740. The BofH advises removing the auto box before lifting the engine due to its weight - which sounds like a sensible plan (the motor without a box would be trivial to remove).

Should be plenty on YT about it Alan, will keep you busy for quite a while finding and reviewing it all though!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Should be plenty on YT about it Alan, will keep you busy for quite a while finding and reviewing it all though!

Yes Dave, time spent in reconnaissance is rarely wasted.

I'd forgotten to paste the link about removing the AW71 from a 740T in the post above. It is a very good guide indeed (so here it is again):

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showp...25&postcount=1

I'm aware that Luke tells us it is much more difficult to remove an engine/auto gearbox together through the bonnet aperture (than a manual), and also that the BofH advises removing the auto box before removing the engine, so I'm thinking that dropping the auto box off might be sensible as the BW55 is a big old lump. I wouldn't have to drop the box off completely of course - just get to the stage where I could access the 4 drive plate bolts, then remove the bell housing bolts so I could pull the motor (on its own) forward. It looks like the engine would only have to go forward an inch or so, and then would be easy to hoist out on its own.

Working on just the motor on the bench would make changing the rings and big end shells a really easy job - and while I'm at it I could change the crank rear seal (it doesn't leak, but like the rest of the car is 40 years old).

An advantage of this would be as a rehearsal for the AW71 swap (probably spring 2023). I'll have the AW71L box here as of next week, and will get it cleaned over and make a crate for it and the associated bits over the summer. With the engine out and the BW55 box loose I could take measurements of for the prop, prop bearing support, shifter and cooling pipes and so have engineering solutions ready for those before starting the swap - and work out the electrical connections while I have good access (I'm thinking I may not bother with the overdrive and just use it as a 4 speeder - that way I could probably adapt the shifter from the RB).

This is a really useful thought exercise - it is really useful to think the problem through in detail first (this is the military way).

I'm bike terms I'd be known as someone that takes his bike apart to work out why it is going so well - and I'm more than aware that many might see this step in the RB project as being needless (and it may well be), but it is exciting all the same :-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I'm thinking I may not bother with the overdrive and just use it as a 4 speeder - that way I could probably adapt the shifter from the RB.

Overdrive is 4th gear Alan. The only electrics involved will depend whether you want to be able to lock overdrive out, other than that run an ignition-switched feed to the overdrive solenoid and it will automatically change into 4th/overdrive when needed. Using the switch on the side of the 7xx lever (that i'm fairly sure was shared with the 240) operates a relay to disconnect the feed to the OD solenoid and as that relay is a changeover relay, feeds a warning light (an orange upward arrow on the 7xx) in the sintrument cluster to warn you overdrive is defeated.

The shift quadrant is the same 1-2-D-N-R-P as you already have, if you want the OD defeat switch, i'm sure you could find a home for it and using one with a built in warning light will give the same info.

The relay actually switches the earth between the solenoid and warning light bulb if memory serves and in its "rest" position (not energised) takes the solenoid to earth, activating overdrive/4th automatically. When energised by the switch on the side of the lever it changes to earth the warning lamp (that has a +ve feed from within the cluster like the other warning lamps) and disconnects the overdrive solenoid.

Alternatively find a 240/740/760 with an AW box and the lever with the switch built in and fit that into your existing shift quadrant.

[Stephen Edwin]

Originally Posted by Othen

Yes Dave, time spent in reconnaissance is rarely wasted.

The mentor of my younger yeara insisted, never, wasted.

Originally Posted by Othen

- it is really useful to think the problem through in detail first (this is the military way).

i.e. look before you leap

And sometimes your way ...

but then of course your plan will not entirely survive encounter with the reality of actually doing the job.

Originally Posted by Othen

I'd be known as someone that takes his bike apart to work out why it is going so well -

So true ... and a good turn of phrase.

Originally Posted by Othen

many might see this step in the RB project as being needless (and it may well be), but it is exciting all the same :-)

Yes.

Of course, you know it is "needless" !!

But. You need to do it. Mecanno init?

You are very well aware that along the way I would have made some dfferent decisions from what you decided. I'm not sure I have expressed myself clearly enough for you. I recognise and at times celebrate your decisions. It's your car .... init ... .... by the way, I value people who make even challenging responses to me. They have put their brain in to gear.

"Yes People" doubtless have their place.

P.S Don't tell anyone but another aspect of me would be very tempted to take that car apart to see why it is working well.

Have you chosen an engine stand to buy yet?

You know that you want one ...

Stephen

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[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Overdrive is 4th gear Alan. The only electrics involved will depend whether you want to be able to lock overdrive out, other than that run an ignition-switched feed to the overdrive solenoid and it will automatically change into 4th/overdrive when needed. Using the switch on the side of the 7xx lever (that i'm fairly sure was shared with the 240) operates a relay to disconnect the feed to the OD solenoid and as that relay is a changeover relay, feeds a warning light (an orange upward arrow on the 7xx) in the sintrument cluster to warn you overdrive is defeated.

The shift quadrant is the same 1-2-D-N-R-P as you already have, if you want the OD defeat switch, i'm sure you could find a home for it and using one with a built in warning light will give the same info.

The relay actually switches the earth between the solenoid and warning light bulb if memory serves and in its "rest" position (not energised) takes the solenoid to earth, activating overdrive/4th automatically. When energised by the switch on the side of the lever it changes to earth the warning lamp (that has a +ve feed from within the cluster like the other warning lamps) and disconnects the overdrive solenoid.

Alternatively find a 240/740/760 with an AW box and the lever with the switch built in and fit that into your existing shift quadrant.

... I'll have to check that with Luke next week when I collect the box Dave. He leads me to believe that 4th and overdrive are not synonymous on the AW71L box (which, he tells me, is different from the AW71 box).

I'll let you know the outcome once I've spoken with Luke and collected the parts.

:-)

PS. I was looking for Luke's previous note of the difference between AW71 and AW71L boxes Dave, but I can't find it (might well have been quite some time ago), so I just googled it and found what appears to be the answer on an Australian site. It would seem the AW71L has a solenoid that locks the torque converter (so it becomes a 1:1 drive) - that being the overdrive feature (and separate from 4th gear); if I recall correctly this results in a 500 RPM drop in engine speed when applied (whilst the car is already in 4th gear). If that is indeed the case then it is not a feature I'd need on the RB as I think the gearing will already be very tall for the car (the first 3 ratios are identical to the BW55).