The German Autobahn Myth

Daim · Apr 17th, 2011, 14:27

Hi there!

I've been living here in Germany since the best part of 14 years and have been driving myself 4 or 5 years. I therefore can say, that I have "a little bit" of experience on the Autobahns...

A world wide myth is, that Germany has no limits on the Autobahns and that means, that you can drive as fast as you want, when you want. This myth is basically still a myth. We had at one time full time open limits, but due to accidents, building sites, traffic "hot spots" etc., the best part of 70-75% of all Autobahns are now with a limit (permenant!). Another 5-10% are with time-attached limits (for example: Mo-Fr between 8 am and 8 pm 120 km/h).

Living here in the North Western area (Bremen/Oldenburg/Verden/Delmenhorst etc.), I've been able to watch traffic build up and the limits get lower and lower. My three local Autobahns are the A1 (one of the most busiest in Germany), the A27 (a regional Autobahn connecting the A7 - the longest - with the ports of Bremen, Bremerhaven and Cuxhaven) and the A281 (a local Autobahn).

The A1 was a joy to drive on. No matter what time of the day, traffic would flow well (even though two lanes). About 4 years ago, traffic got worse and the widend the A1 by another lane. At the same time, a lot of the track was reduced in speed to cope with more traffic (sounds stupid, but it works, as lower speeds need less distance between two vehicles -> German rule: half the speed (km/h) in meters. So if I am driving 200 km/h I need 100 m distance between me and the car ahead. If I drive 120 km/h I need 60 m -> nearly half the distance). Some spots are even reduced to 100 km/h and even 80 km/h (approx. 50 mph!). Traffic flows better and traffic jams are reduced...

The A27, my "high speed track", is half limited (the section between Bremen and Bremerhaven) and half open (between Bremen and Walsrode -> A7). This allows a nice quick drive - but when it is bright, the road is full. When it is dark, you can't drive fast, as you by law aren't allowed to drive faster, than your low beams allow - as the Autobahns are basically driven on low beam (no light barrier between the directions).

The A281 is a local Autobahn - limited to 80 km/h. The road can easily be driven on with more. 200+ km/h is no worry - but, as it is in a town (though lifted above houses with lots of security precautions) it isn't wanted...

Part of the myth on the Autobahns is, that you can get to your destination FASTER i.e. in lesser time, than in other places on the planet. This is a myth as well... I'll explain why: I've driven a few times from Bremen down to Kempten (that is a one way distance of about 800 km -> 500 miles) or other destinations and back within one day. My speed chosen on the A7 (the Autobahn used to get to Kempten) was 120 km/h. I could easily have driven faster, but I'd like to explain why I chose that speed and how you can tell, that a long distance is better at a lower speed...

Driving at 120 km/h (about 80 mph) you get a very good fuel economy. You can get a long distance (I get sometimes 1000 km (about 625 miles!) on one tankfill with my small C30 with it's smallish petrol tank - not diesel!) on a tankfull with not much problems. If you put cruise control on, then it is a very comfortable ride down and back. My car manages a topspeed of 224 km/h (bang on 130 mph!) and will empty the tank driving at that speed within less than 500 km (about 400 miles!). So I'd have to tank up at least once on my way. The acceleration above 120 km/h costs more fuel and the constant idiots pulling out and not taking note of someone closing up witha higher speed make fuel consumption higher and higher. You will get to the petrol stations along the Autobahns (where 1 l of petrol costs 10 cents/liter MORE than on the normal petrol stations!) and you'll spend a while tanking up... It will cost you more nerves, more fuel and more wear and tear if you drive fast...

For example... A German car magazine once compared a Porsche 911 GT3, a VW Golf V Bluemotion and a Citroen C3 with 1.6d (109 hp!). The Porsche was told to drive as fast as possible (within the laws!), the Golf was told to stay at 80 km/h and the Citroen was allowed to drive at 120 km/h. The distance was I think from Hamburg to Munich - 612 km. The Porsche tanked up twice and arrived in something like 4.5 hours. The Golf didn't tank and arrived after about 6 hours. The Citroen - which surprised all - arrived 10 minutes AFTER the Porsche and didn't tank up once and STILL had a half full tank - and that at driving only 120 km/h.

So, the myth of arriving quickly somewhere doesn't really add up. A lot of the time, you get there only a few minutes before you would if you drove a bit slower... Nearly every car forum, outside of Germany, the Autobahn myth is "praised". People don't like the thought, that higher speeds don't result in a earlier arrival... The world is cruel, so is my text

I really do love the Autobahns, but that myth is really a myth and shouldn't be told any further...

V70Driver · Apr 17th, 2011, 21:59

I wouldn't state that what you find in your part of Germany is considered the same all over. I have been living and driving between Dresden and Berlin's two major surviving airports for a week and while I have seen 130kph speed limits, have witnessed traffic passing me as if I was in reverse. Today numerous cars passing me at what must have been 120-130 MPH and past two police liveried vehicles who didn't bat an eyelid. I grant you they could have simply caught them on there camera or radioed ahead, but the drivers of these numerous cars were either to stupid and blind to see two liveried police cars, or you are allowed to do what speed you like. On the 113 which I seemed to have spent the last number of days on, everyday family cars have gone past me with ease, while I was doing a around 120kph.
I suppose, you pays your money, you takes your chance
V70Driver

Gazdok · Apr 17th, 2011, 23:36

The UK could do with lifting some of the speed limits and raise the general motorway limit to 80+ MpH though.

The big difference between Germany and the UK is when you are caught say doing about 20+ miles or 30+ Km above the limit. In Germany it only means a penalty and points on your license, here you do not have to worry about that license any longer.... because it will be gone unless you are a famous politician who can make people bend the rules or you are a cop practising "going fast".

And often going a little faster is a little more fun and gets you from A to B a little quicker.

johnjp · Apr 18th, 2011, 00:39

I was under the impression, perhaps myth, that only Autobahn with more than 2 lanes (each carriageway) permitted unlimited speed!
The last time I was on a >2 lane Autobahn I was a passenger in a coach, in the dark. I just glimpsed a car shoot past at incredible speed. The coach was motoring at 80kph. The car must have been doing >200kph. I looked ahead and was amazed to see, at some distance, what seemed to be a collision. Soon we arrived at the scene of the crash. The car, a Lambo, had totally rear ended what I believe was a Merc, though it was too damged to be sure.
I have to say many drivers in all of Europe are nuts so I would rather drive at around 130kph so as not to rear end a Polish farmer driving at 80kph in the outside lane!

Paddy Wagon · Apr 18th, 2011, 02:21

In Ireland, the speed limit is set by the slowest tractor,,,,,,,,

NewVolvo · Apr 18th, 2011, 07:46

Having lived in Germany now for almost a year and worked over here for many years before I think that the German system is one of the best in Europe. Not only for the freedom if putting your foot down, but also for the lane discipline and general behaviour on the autobahns. Of course, like in the UK and other EU countries you will always have one who thinks he's Schumacher!

There are still many sections where the free speed applies, but due to traffic it can be difficult to really go for it.

Many 2 lane autobahns are free speed. The A57 between Cologne and Dusseldorf is one. A61 between Cologne and Koblenz is another.

The weirdest feeling for me is that when you have a free section and say you go at 200km/h and pass a police vehicle travelling at much slower speed. Legally!! However, outside of Wesseling (where our office is based) the A555 has a free section of speed, so one day last week I passed a police vehicle at great speed. A 120km/h section comes up, everybody slows down and then the police pass us all at great speed (at least 140-150km/h) with no blue lights!!!

I love it!

TheJoyOfSix · Apr 18th, 2011, 09:10

As said above the system only works in Germany because of good driving skills and lane discipline. Anticipation seems to be a skill that far more German drivers have than we do.

I remember driving up a long hill in a 240 (2.3 carb auto) towing a car trailer with a Daf66 on board loaded up to the gills with spare parts. Our 'all in' weight was close to 2.38tonnes (1.3 for the car, 1.5 for the trailer) so progress was down to about 45mph. We were gradually catching up a truck doing about 40mph so I wanted to pull out and overtake to keep my momentum up but there were a pair of headlight rapidly approaching from behind (130mph+). I was pleasantly surprised when the approaching car slowed down and flashed me out without me even indicating that I wished to do so. After I had completed the manoeuvre the car, which turned out to be a BMW M5, took off like a scalded cat with a glorious howl from its V10 and resumed it's previous pace.

I know that this was probably above and beyond the call of most German drivers, but here was someone who was in a hurry, yet had the time and patience and skill to spot a struggling vehicle and allow it to proceed without hindrance whilst inconveniencing himself. It's this kind of patience, observation and skill that make Autbahns safer and more pleasant than Uk roads.

Mike1967 · Apr 18th, 2011, 09:41

Having used the German autobahn network, I have one thing to say when returning to the UK motorways .
UK motorway drivers have no lane discipline at all ..... try that in Germany !

V70Driver · Apr 18th, 2011, 10:43

I would totally agree with this, admittedly having been here only a week, the huge difference in driver tolerance, manners etc is far better than in England from what little experience I have seen.
I am borrowing my partners little Toyota Yaris 1.3, and the journey is so much more relaxed than covering the same distance or even half that than in England. I notice and have been informed that it is a MUST to use your indicators, I believe it is an offence not to, if spotted by the Police?
V70Driver (or is it ToyotaDriver!!!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJoyOfSix

As said above the system only works in Germany because of good driving skills and lane discipline. Anticipation seems to be a skill that far more German drivers have than we do.

I remember driving up a long hill in a 240 (2.3 carb auto) towing a car trailer with a Daf66 on board loaded up to the gills with spare parts. Our 'all in' weight was close to 2.38tonnes (1.3 for the car, 1.5 for the trailer) so progress was down to about 45mph. We were gradually catching up a truck doing about 40mph so I wanted to pull out and overtake to keep my momentum up but there were a pair of headlight rapidly approaching from behind (130mph+). I was pleasantly surprised when the approaching car slowed down and flashed me out without me even indicating that I wished to do so. After I had completed the manoeuvre the car, which turned out to be a BMW M5, took off like a scalded cat with a glorious howl from its V10 and resumed it's previous pace.

I know that this was probably above and beyond the call of most German drivers, but here was someone who was in a hurry, yet had the time and patience and skill to spot a struggling vehicle and allow it to proceed without hindrance whilst inconveniencing himself. It's this kind of patience, observation and skill that make Autbahns safer and more pleasant than Uk roads.

NewVolvo · Apr 18th, 2011, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by V70Driver

I would totally agree with this, admittedly having been here only a week, the huge difference in driver tolerance, manners etc is far better than in England from what little experience I have seen.
I am borrowing my partners little Toyota Yaris 1.3, and the journey is so much more relaxed than covering the same distance or even half that than in England. I notice and have been informed that it is a MUST to use your indicators, I believe it is an offence not to, if spotted by the Police?
V70Driver (or is it ToyotaDriver!!!)

YES, you must indicate when changing lanes in Germany. Same as in any other country in EU although the UK (and Sweden) are by far the worst for not using them IMO!

Apr 17th, 2011, 14:27	#1
Daim Brit in Germany Last Online: May 18th, 2024 19:59 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bremen	The German Autobahn Myth Hi there! I've been living here in Germany since the best part of 14 years and have been driving myself 4 or 5 years. I therefore can say, that I have "a little bit" of experience on the Autobahns... A world wide myth is, that Germany has no limits on the Autobahns and that means, that you can drive as fast as you want, when you want. This myth is basically still a myth. We had at one time full time open limits, but due to accidents, building sites, traffic "hot spots" etc., the best part of 70-75% of all Autobahns are now with a limit (permenant!). Another 5-10% are with time-attached limits (for example: Mo-Fr between 8 am and 8 pm 120 km/h). Living here in the North Western area (Bremen/Oldenburg/Verden/Delmenhorst etc.), I've been able to watch traffic build up and the limits get lower and lower. My three local Autobahns are the A1 (one of the most busiest in Germany), the A27 (a regional Autobahn connecting the A7 - the longest - with the ports of Bremen, Bremerhaven and Cuxhaven) and the A281 (a local Autobahn). The A1 was a joy to drive on. No matter what time of the day, traffic would flow well (even though two lanes). About 4 years ago, traffic got worse and the widend the A1 by another lane. At the same time, a lot of the track was reduced in speed to cope with more traffic (sounds stupid, but it works, as lower speeds need less distance between two vehicles -> German rule: half the speed (km/h) in meters. So if I am driving 200 km/h I need 100 m distance between me and the car ahead. If I drive 120 km/h I need 60 m -> nearly half the distance). Some spots are even reduced to 100 km/h and even 80 km/h (approx. 50 mph!). Traffic flows better and traffic jams are reduced... The A27, my "high speed track", is half limited (the section between Bremen and Bremerhaven) and half open (between Bremen and Walsrode -> A7). This allows a nice quick drive - but when it is bright, the road is full. When it is dark, you can't drive fast, as you by law aren't allowed to drive faster, than your low beams allow - as the Autobahns are basically driven on low beam (no light barrier between the directions). The A281 is a local Autobahn - limited to 80 km/h. The road can easily be driven on with more. 200+ km/h is no worry - but, as it is in a town (though lifted above houses with lots of security precautions) it isn't wanted... Part of the myth on the Autobahns is, that you can get to your destination FASTER i.e. in lesser time, than in other places on the planet. This is a myth as well... I'll explain why: I've driven a few times from Bremen down to Kempten (that is a one way distance of about 800 km -> 500 miles) or other destinations and back within one day. My speed chosen on the A7 (the Autobahn used to get to Kempten) was 120 km/h. I could easily have driven faster, but I'd like to explain why I chose that speed and how you can tell, that a long distance is better at a lower speed... Driving at 120 km/h (about 80 mph) you get a very good fuel economy. You can get a long distance (I get sometimes 1000 km (about 625 miles!) on one tankfill with my small C30 with it's smallish petrol tank - not diesel!) on a tankfull with not much problems. If you put cruise control on, then it is a very comfortable ride down and back. My car manages a topspeed of 224 km/h (bang on 130 mph!) and will empty the tank driving at that speed within less than 500 km (about 400 miles!). So I'd have to tank up at least once on my way. The acceleration above 120 km/h costs more fuel and the constant idiots pulling out and not taking note of someone closing up witha higher speed make fuel consumption higher and higher. You will get to the petrol stations along the Autobahns (where 1 l of petrol costs 10 cents/liter MORE than on the normal petrol stations!) and you'll spend a while tanking up... It will cost you more nerves, more fuel and more wear and tear if you drive fast... For example... A German car magazine once compared a Porsche 911 GT3, a VW Golf V Bluemotion and a Citroen C3 with 1.6d (109 hp!). The Porsche was told to drive as fast as possible (within the laws!), the Golf was told to stay at 80 km/h and the Citroen was allowed to drive at 120 km/h. The distance was I think from Hamburg to Munich - 612 km. The Porsche tanked up twice and arrived in something like 4.5 hours. The Golf didn't tank and arrived after about 6 hours. The Citroen - which surprised all - arrived 10 minutes AFTER the Porsche and didn't tank up once and STILL had a half full tank - and that at driving only 120 km/h. So, the myth of arriving quickly somewhere doesn't really add up. A lot of the time, you get there only a few minutes before you would if you drove a bit slower... Nearly every car forum, outside of Germany, the Autobahn myth is "praised". People don't like the thought, that higher speeds don't result in a earlier arrival... The world is cruel, so is my text I really do love the Autobahns, but that myth is really a myth and shouldn't be told any further... __________________ The Best Nation Is Imagination 2010 V70 (Type 135) D5 (D5244T10) Automatic (TF-80SC)

Apr 18th, 2011, 07:46	#6
NewVolvo VOC Member Last Online: Oct 23rd, 2022 19:52 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Köln, Germany View Photos By: NewVolvo	Having lived in Germany now for almost a year and worked over here for many years before I think that the German system is one of the best in Europe. Not only for the freedom if putting your foot down, but also for the lane discipline and general behaviour on the autobahns. Of course, like in the UK and other EU countries you will always have one who thinks he's Schumacher! There are still many sections where the free speed applies, but due to traffic it can be difficult to really go for it. Many 2 lane autobahns are free speed. The A57 between Cologne and Dusseldorf is one. A61 between Cologne and Koblenz is another. The weirdest feeling for me is that when you have a free section and say you go at 200km/h and pass a police vehicle travelling at much slower speed. Legally!! However, outside of Wesseling (where our office is based) the A555 has a free section of speed, so one day last week I passed a police vehicle at great speed. A 120km/h section comes up, everybody slows down and then the police pass us all at great speed (at least 140-150km/h) with no blue lights!!! I love it! __________________ 2019 XC60 T6 R-Design 2017 S6 Avant 1996 850R 1987 780 Bertone Lots of previous Volvo's

Apr 18th, 2011, 09:10	#7
TheJoyOfSix N.F.I Last Online: Oct 28th, 2023 23:33 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Belper View Photos By: TheJoyOfSix	As said above the system only works in Germany because of good driving skills and lane discipline. Anticipation seems to be a skill that far more German drivers have than we do. I remember driving up a long hill in a 240 (2.3 carb auto) towing a car trailer with a Daf66 on board loaded up to the gills with spare parts. Our 'all in' weight was close to 2.38tonnes (1.3 for the car, 1.5 for the trailer) so progress was down to about 45mph. We were gradually catching up a truck doing about 40mph so I wanted to pull out and overtake to keep my momentum up but there were a pair of headlight rapidly approaching from behind (130mph+). I was pleasantly surprised when the approaching car slowed down and flashed me out without me even indicating that I wished to do so. After I had completed the manoeuvre the car, which turned out to be a BMW M5, took off like a scalded cat with a glorious howl from its V10 and resumed it's previous pace. I know that this was probably above and beyond the call of most German drivers, but here was someone who was in a hurry, yet had the time and patience and skill to spot a struggling vehicle and allow it to proceed without hindrance whilst inconveniencing himself. It's this kind of patience, observation and skill that make Autbahns safer and more pleasant than Uk roads. __________________

Apr 17th, 2011, 21:59	#2
V70Driver Premier Member Last Online: Aug 21st, 2021 17:42 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Old Ghamin, Doha,	I wouldn't state that what you find in your part of Germany is considered the same all over. I have been living and driving between Dresden and Berlin's two major surviving airports for a week and while I have seen 130kph speed limits, have witnessed traffic passing me as if I was in reverse. Today numerous cars passing me at what must have been 120-130 MPH and past two police liveried vehicles who didn't bat an eyelid. I grant you they could have simply caught them on there camera or radioed ahead, but the drivers of these numerous cars were either to stupid and blind to see two liveried police cars, or you are allowed to do what speed you like. On the 113 which I seemed to have spent the last number of days on, everyday family cars have gone past me with ease, while I was doing a around 120kph. I suppose, you pays your money, you takes your chance V70Driver

Apr 17th, 2011, 23:36	#3
Gazdok Master Member Last Online: Dec 31st, 2023 11:17 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Wigston	The UK could do with lifting some of the speed limits and raise the general motorway limit to 80+ MpH though. The big difference between Germany and the UK is when you are caught say doing about 20+ miles or 30+ Km above the limit. In Germany it only means a penalty and points on your license, here you do not have to worry about that license any longer.... because it will be gone unless you are a famous politician who can make people bend the rules or you are a cop practising "going fast". And often going a little faster is a little more fun and gets you from A to B a little quicker.

Apr 18th, 2011, 00:39	#4
johnjp Master Member Last Online: Jan 30th, 2019 22:56 Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Heathfield, East Sussex View Photos By: johnjp	I was under the impression, perhaps myth, that only Autobahn with more than 2 lanes (each carriageway) permitted unlimited speed! The last time I was on a >2 lane Autobahn I was a passenger in a coach, in the dark. I just glimpsed a car shoot past at incredible speed. The coach was motoring at 80kph. The car must have been doing >200kph. I looked ahead and was amazed to see, at some distance, what seemed to be a collision. Soon we arrived at the scene of the crash. The car, a Lambo, had totally rear ended what I believe was a Merc, though it was too damged to be sure. I have to say many drivers in all of Europe are nuts so I would rather drive at around 130kph so as not to rear end a Polish farmer driving at 80kph in the outside lane!

Apr 18th, 2011, 02:21	#5
Paddy Wagon Senior Member Last Online: May 30th, 2012 19:52 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: On a mountain in West Cork	In Ireland, the speed limit is set by the slowest tractor,,,,,,,,

Apr 18th, 2011, 09:41	#8
Mike1967 Premier Member Last Online: Dec 12th, 2018 12:36 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Here ......	Having used the German autobahn network, I have one thing to say when returning to the UK motorways . UK motorway drivers have no lane discipline at all ..... try that in Germany !

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