PilotAssist critical flaw

[Discoman]

Never use it because it is nowhere near safe enough to. Use adaptive cruise all the time and it is impressive albeit I think the 5mph and incremental speed change button logic is the wrong way round.

[ZenSpeedmaster]

I definately think that pilot assist reduced my alertness and awareness on the motorway. I don't use it at all because I think it actually reduces safety by sedating the driver.

[ergonomist]

And that's the challenge as I see it - it's all very well relying on people who have thought about how these driver aids affect their performance, but this anecdotal evidence that there is a negative impact makes me all the more concerned that manufacturers provide these systems without proper evaluation of their impact on safety, and the law doesn't appear to understand the subtleties of the effects.

It's not just Darwin Award candidates sitting the back seats of Teslas who don't understand. It's ordinary people who just accept the manufacturers 'puff' about making driving easier...

[Fursty Ferret]

I disagree. I use Pilot Assist for 99% of my motorway driving and can definitely say that it makes the journey easier. Frees up capacity to look a long way ahead of the car so getting in situations where a car is stranded and not seen until the last minute can't happen.

If I see slowing or stationary traffic ahead I either knock out the PA, slow it down, or increase the time gap.

It's a useful aid but I trust it as far as I can throw the car and use it with that caveat. It's literally called "assist", not "autopilot".

[ergonomist]

I think we're sort of saying the same thing. I agree it can be helpful. But the key thing is how you use the 'freed-up capacity'. My worry is that some drivers will behave differently from you. Maybe taking a little longer when interacting with the Sensus screen... maybe taking a little longer when re-programming the satnav etc. I'm not arguing that we dispense with these assistance systems - just suggesting that more thought is needed about how we maximise their benefits. I'm with you about not placing any reliance on their performance. But don't get me started about the poor quality of the alert you get when PA has disconnected...

[AndyJudge]

I think the key point is the fact it's 'Pilot Assist' not 'Auto-Pilot'. I've only used it once on a loan car for an 80ish mile trip & found it did what it said on the tin.

I do use my adaptive Cruise all the time on a long run & this still has the limitation of when a car pulls into my lane without looking or making any attempt to match speed it can take a split second to react & start the slowing down process. However it does react & leant on the brakes at almost the same time as collision warning alarm sounded (Although I was already prepared to brake)

Too many people miss the key point of these systems in that you as the driver still have ultimate control. there are no systems currently fitted to cars in the UK marked that are approved to take over the control of the car from the driver.

[Steve XC60]

This is a euroncap testing report from a similar time - 2018.
https://preview.thenewsmarket.com/Pr...ets/522788.pdf

These type of issues are often referred to as "cut in" and "cut out" scenarios and are a challenge for any AEB / ACC / pilot assist system whether Tesla or Volvo or any other manufacturer. I am sure the systems have been improved and refined since 2018, but AFAIK no one has properly solved the problem yet - and so these cut in and cut out scenarios continue to be a limitation of any driver assist feature.

Some of the comments on that euroncap report on the Volvo system are quite telling:
"No system response was witnessed in the cut-in and cut-out scenarios which are critical and challenging due to the rapidly changing conditions." and therefore "The driver clearly needs to stay alert and take appropriate action in more critical day-to-day scenarios such as the sudden cut-in situation."

I must admit, I am not sure most people realise the true limitations of these systems... basically, if you are using pilot assist and following a car in front, and the car you are following changes lane at the very last second to avoid stationary (or very slow moving) traffic, then unless you have seen the traffic ahead and have taken action to brake or steer around (ie before or at virtually the same time as the vehicle you are following cuts out), you stand very little chance of stopping in time. And any collision will be your fault from a legal / insurance perspective.

[nu11eaf]

Pilot assist is not suitable for use on roads where you will or are likely to encounter parked cars or in urban areas, it is a system suited and meant for dual carriage ways and motorways, (where I find it performs exactly as it is meant to do) or major A roads with limits and as long as you understand how the system works and maintain vigilance and awareness it works very well and as expected. It is not an auto pilot.

I had a learning curve using PA, the first lesson learnt was, pulling off a 50mph dual carriageway onto a very long off ramp heading towards a roundabout at the end, and finding the car not slowing as it heads towards the stationary cars waiting at the roundabout and applying last minute heavy braking, car stopped on its own but it was scarey "lesson learnt" stationary traffic requires driver response. If the radar is not locked on to a moving car in front it will not react, in my case it was collision avoidance that stopped me not PA.

[Steve XC60]

I agree with all you say nu11eaf, but just for clarity, the cut in cut out scenarios I described are generally dual carriageway / motorway situations. Unfortunately, stationary or slow moving traffic - at least pre-Covid - was all too frequent an occurrence on the UKs dual carriageway and motorways (and you cannot discount breakdowns etc).

Pilot assist has its use cases - I just fear not every user is away of its limitations and could therefore make costly assumptions about its capabilities.

[nu11eaf]

Originally Posted by Steve XC60

I agree with all you say nu11eaf, but just for clarity, the cut in cut out scenarios I described are generally dual carriageway / motorway situations. Unfortunately, stationary or slow moving traffic - at least pre-Covid - was all too frequent an occurrence on the UKs dual carriageway and motorways (and you cannot discount breakdowns etc).

Pilot assist has its use cases - I just fear not every user is away of its limitations and could therefore make costly assumptions about its capabilities.

Very true, awareness required at all times, even on motorways, the cut in cut out and stationary vehicles are examples of the radar not being locked on to a moving vehicle to react smoothly or at all, hopefully the car would react using collision avoidance but its best to be aware and react yourself and avoid the need for that to happen and only being aware and in control can you do that. I think we are on the same page.