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Any Advice, Part 2!

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Old Jul 26th, 2021, 10:40   #601
Stephen Edwin
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I am absolutely correct, on this occasion!



The problem is partly, whoever does the repair, knowing how and where to make it strong, how and where to make it less strong. How to achieve that 240 crumple zone again. Shadow boxing in the dark. And of course the crumple zone is gone due to corrosion. So yes Dave, repair is a compromise. Just like life itself init.

Stephen

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Old Jul 27th, 2021, 15:35   #602
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Thanks both, and yes, I'd forgotten about crumple zones so we'll try to proceed with plan A.
The welder says fine, and I've just got prices for the two sheets of mild steel (apparently they can't get hold of the zinc/ zintec at the moment, supply issues). £35 for the steel, and £10 for a 30mm (external) x 1.2m pipe to wrap it round for the internal profile (seems annoying but I can't find the right size laying around - and 10 isn't bad to be able to get on).

But - they don't do 1mm sheets, either 0.9 or 1.2. I prefer the idea of 0.9mm as it'll be easier to shape, it looks like turning a meter of steel through 90 degrees isn't that easy, and 0.3mm could make difference between a tidy and botched job! (The original measures 1.1mm, with paint). Are we ok to go ahead with 0.9mm? If I put the order in today or tomorrow morning, we can collect Friday.
Thanks, C

ps As a bonus, the chap doing the welding is going to let my lad watch/ help and he's going to talk him though and show him what he's doing. :-)

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Old Jul 27th, 2021, 18:50   #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris152 View Post
ps As a bonus, the chap doing the welding is going to let my lad watch/ help and he's going to talk him though and show him what he's doing. :-)
... now that bit really is worthwhile Chris.
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Old Jul 27th, 2021, 18:58   #604
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I wouldn't be too concerned regarding the zintec steel :~ the coating will burn away as soon as you start welding, you also have to be aware that a gas is given off when zinc is heated- it does need to be watched.

The important thing to preserve the steel is all in the preparation i.e. the keying of the steel- descent rust preparation (zinc rich paint) etch primer etc.
Jenolite rust treatment on the older metals is also good.

If a joggle joint is to be used these are far stronger fully welded along the joins- this will also avoid them opening/cracking etc. -- welds are better covered with seam sealer prior to the top coats going on.

The rear of the 240 is well protected by the bumper supports that are in turn secured to rear chassis legs & boot floor areas- Scaffolding bars spring to mind so if the rear is welded properly a compromise isn't that great.
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Old Aug 8th, 2021, 12:13   #605
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Quick update - we've been slow, mainly because I don't know what we're doing. First try at the internal profile was poor - we used the steel pipe I bought but couldn't really clamp it down strongly enough, and we tried the 90 degree bend around the pipe by lifting the sheet, which allowed the middle section of the sheet to not bend as much. So it had a bulge. We ditched that plan and I planed the 15mm radius on a piece of wood and this time pressed the sheet down to achieve the 90 degree curve, which seems to have worked! All hammering was done with a block of beech between hammer and sheet, and to hold the sheet in place for the curve we screwed a bar through the sheet and into the wooden profile.
We'd already put the 90 degree lip on using angle irons (the flat profile of the sash clamps didn't hold securely enough at the centre of the sheet, on our first effort) before doing the curve. You can see in the end shot that I also had to plane away wood to leave an overhang so the sheet could be turned through more than 90 degrees to allow for spring back.
Now we just need to cut the curve into the section hanging vertically in the photos, to follow the shape of the rear seen from above when in situ. I'll practice on the failed first attempt (which you can see is still attached on th eopposite end of the sheet in the photos), and I've cut the curve template for the jig saw in ply so hopefully that'll be accurate.

Not sure if any of what I've just written will make sense to you, but hopefully the pics are explanatory!

Then it's on to the external profile which, we hope, will be relatively easy. Ha.
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Old Aug 8th, 2021, 12:55   #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris152 View Post
Quick update - we've been slow, mainly because I don't know what we're doing. First try at the internal profile was poor - we used the steel pipe I bought but couldn't really clamp it down strongly enough, and we tried the 90 degree bend around the pipe by lifting the sheet, which allowed the middle section of the sheet to not bend as much. So it had a bulge. We ditched that plan and I planed the 15mm radius on a piece of wood and this time pressed the sheet down to achieve the 90 degree curve, which seems to have worked! All hammering was done with a block of beech between hammer and sheet, and to hold the sheet in place for the curve we screwed a bar through the sheet and into the wooden profile.
We'd already put the 90 degree lip on using angle irons (the flat profile of the sash clamps didn't hold securely enough at the centre of the sheet, on our first effort) before doing the curve. You can see in the end shot that I also had to plane away wood to leave an overhang so the sheet could be turned through more than 90 degrees to allow for spring back.
Now we just need to cut the curve into the section hanging vertically in the photos, to follow the shape of the rear seen from above when in situ. I'll practice on the failed first attempt (which you can see is still attached on th eopposite end of the sheet in the photos), and I've cut the curve template for the jig saw in ply so hopefully that'll be accurate.

Not sure if any of what I've just written will make sense to you, but hopefully the pics are explanatory!

Then it's on to the external profile which, we hope, will be relatively easy. Ha.
Some great work there Chris and i certainly couldn't have made those wooden formers!

Just to give you a few more ideas that may help with forming what you need, have a look at these various metal forming machines on fleabay :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...acat=0&_sop=15

That's a starting point, if you do some more searching on ebay and also on YouTube, you'll find many sources of inspiration that may or may not help with this present project but ultimately if you are doing any other sheet metal (or even with metal bars, tubing etc) forming, you will have some extra ideas.

You can work out what is most likely to work for you and build those ideas into your tools and create your own range of tools to do many jobs!
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Old Mar 14th, 2022, 22:38   #607
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Bit of a delay while I had a few things to sort, but we seem to be returning to some semblance of normality at last. The main thing is, the lad passed his driving test, we got insurance sorted, and he's now happy as Larry driving here there and everywhere in his lovely car.

MoT is later this week, and we're trying to sort an odd thing. The brake light in the tailgate window wasn't coming on, so we changed the bulb - worked fine to test with the tailgate open, but not with it shut. Several minutes fiddling later and we realised that it works fine with the tailgate wide open, but as we lower it a couple of inches, it stops working. That's not much good. With the gate wide open, we can wiggle the cables going into the tailgate from the body, and the wires apearing from the tailgate to connect to the light, and the light still works perfectly. Lower it a couple of inches and it goes out again.

I guess it must be the wires (we tested the actual bulb holder by connecting the bulb/ wire setup Loki made for us to the terminals disconnected from the unit and it's exactly the same problem), but given we can wiggle all the wires with the gate wide open and it still functions perfectly, why would gently lowering the gate by a couple of inches cause it to stop?! They have slack, so it's not pulling on them as far as we can see. And I seem to remember seeing a receipt for the wires to the tailgate to be re-routed, which I think some do to overcome a common fault of the cables breaking? Maybe I made that up.

Can anyone suggest any tests we can do to establish where the connection's being lost? Or has anyone else had such a problem and knows the solution?

Thanks for any thoughts, C
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Old Mar 14th, 2022, 22:50   #608
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Get a lewngth of fishing/strimmer line Chris, loop it round the wires between body and tailgate and shut the tailgate witth you lad inside, holding t'other end of plastic line.
Now you go and jump on the brake pedal and get him to try wiggling the wires by using the loop of line as a "remote" finger. Maybe you'll need to try this in different places to pull the wires in the right direction, possibly even with him laying on the roof (spread-eagled to spread his weight as evenly as possible) but once you find where and what direction causes the 3rd brake light to work again you can then narrow it down to which wire it is.

Alternatively unclip the 3rd brake light and tuck the wiring into the tailgate for the MoT - it's not an obligatory lamp and if it's not fitted, it can't be tested and therfore can't be failed. I have a feeling if it's not working at all that still isn't a fail but cars with multiple bulb 3rd brake lights (eg 7 bulbs in a row) have to have more than half of the bulbs working or none at all to pass.

Note that some time after your car was made i believe the 3rd brake light became obligatory so different rules may apply to different cars.
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Old Mar 15th, 2022, 09:12   #609
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Thanks Dave. We'll have another go at trying to provoke the light to come on by moving the wires, but so far as much as we wiggled, it made no difference - it stayed on with the gate open, and stayed off with it lowered more than a few inches.
I've done a bit of searching on the net and your idea of disconnecting the light sounds a good one if we can't fix it quickly (the MoT is Thursday) - I may call the garage to confirm with them that this'll be ok, til we find a fix.
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Old Mar 15th, 2022, 12:07   #610
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Not uncommon to have faults with tailgate wiring:~
Not just Volvo- the continued flexing of the above can break or lead to frayed wire, sounds like you have this problem.

The loom can be repaired by splicing in new wire, the hinged area is generally the culprit.
If you do a search you should find further advice- cable connections are under the rear headlining so the wires can be worked out for the repair without total removal, shrink sleeves will also reinforce the loom.

It gets a bit long winded accessing the fault/hinge removal but a straight forward DIY repair (Do one side at a time- no need to purchase a new loom- colour coded wire is fine allowing extra length for a fresh location .

As time is now a little short approaching MOT day etc I would disconnect/remove the 3rd light until you can do a full repair.
Its likely that other wires are on the way out?
Good Luck.
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