Engine starts but will not run

[woolfie1948]

To confirm
The sucking test made the retard (manifold) slow the idle and the advance (carb) increase the idle, as you predicted.
I will put back the retard pipe and plug the advance one as you suggest and see what happens.
However, I must admit I am also very tempted to put the timing back a touch more now that the points are correctly gapped as I feel we are so close now. After all the manual does give the gap as a 'minimum', so another experiment for later could be to open them a smidgeon more!
Dare we suggest that the Volvo green bible/manual may have an error (that I suppose Haynes just copied) as the handbook only gives gap not dwell? Thanks for the science to you and to Derek - beyond me but I thought I had not forgotten how to gap set of points!
I am glad it's not just me that is confused over the terminology but I suppose the volvo manual was written for the American speakers.
I am also pleased you are still happy working on this as I was afraid I was becoming a bore, but I expect others reading our 'discussions' may have a different view.
As mentioned petrol was a real problem yesterday and I doubt it has improved to day so may be a delay in getting back.

[swedishandgerman]

Please could you resist the temptation to retard it any more right now?

My overall aim is to get as much advance at 2,500rpm whilst eliminating pinking at low

If we can eliminate pinking just by disconnecting the advance, the next thing up my sleeve is to start increasing the adavnce!

So at this stage, could I just ask you to experiment with the vacuum systems please?

Additionally, if I was you, I would leave the points gap where it is. You'll just need to measure it more frequently to make sure it doesn't get too small. You could take the reading off your dwell meter as it is now and keep it recorded for refernce so that you don't have to go through the process of getting your feeler gauge out each time

[woolfie1948]

Still with you!

[woolfie1948]

Just managed to get outfor test run with advance pipe removed and plugged.
I think it improved the pinking but it's still there under heavy load. It does however make the engine less responsive to the throttle, that is it dulls performance.
I also think it was not so happy running on choke when first started.
Tickover seems same as when connected.

[swedishandgerman]

So is that with JUST the advance pipe removed? What's it like with both the advance pipe and the retard pipes removed?

Are you saying that it has only improved it a bit, but not significantly?

Unfortunately, if we end up leaving the advance pipe off, one of the drawbacks is that it won't run as well on choke

What I wanted to be able to achieve was to advance the distributor by eliminating the vac advance so that you get more advance when cruising

[woolfie1948]

I understand what you have in mind
Not yet tried with both pipes removed and plugged.
Difficult to quantify how much less it pinked with advance pipe plugged with only one test run but was definitely better. It had definitely not gone completely but prob. acceptable as my old mechanic used to say you have the timing set ok if it only pinks on heavy load. However performance was noticeably down.
I will try without any vac connection as soon as I can.
Interesting that with the other distributor (ebay purchase) on, that appeared to have no centifugal advance working, it did not pink. The one on now is my original that H+H tried to modify the curve.

[swedishandgerman]

That's because that ebay one has had it and the centrifugal advance isn'tworking - it's still at 10 degs at 2,500 rpm. So it's not going to pink BUT you'renotgoing to get good performance or good mpg

When you say that H&H have modified the curve, what do you mean? I thought they reconditioned it to the distributor's standard spec

Seeing as it's just pinking on heavy load, but it's STILL pinking, you could experiment to see what happens if you advance it a bit. But I fear you're just going to get more pinking. I was hoping that we were going to almost get rid of the pinking, but would be able to give it a bit more advance to overcome the reduction in power you are experiencing.

You should be able to achieve at least 29 degs at full revs with little to no pinking under load at low rpm. As you have said, a little bit of pinking I consider to be acceptable as long as you can stp it by either backing off the throttle, increase the rpm a bit or drop a gear. Perhaps we're never going to get rid of ALL pinking on modern fuel!

So if you get back to me with no change if you disconnect the retard pipe as well ( I doubt that this is going to do anything), then we will need to start looking at some other things

[woolfie1948]

A bit of an update, sorry about the delay but had some diversions to deal with.
Managed to get a bit of time yestrday and today, and I needed to make a trip down the M1 so used it for testing.
Removing the advance pipe, so then had both pipes off, made no difference so went back to both pipes on and put timing back from 8 to 6 btdc and noticed smoother tickover and pulling well on the motorway, but no significant reduction in pinking.
At 4 btdc pinking much better and I would say now at acceptable level, tickover still good, power delivery still smooth, but the performance had started to suffer. I then took off the the retard pipe (yes Adam, the retard one) and plugged it, so then had to reduce the tickover speed.
To my surprise on a short test drive it felt much more responsive (pinking unchanged) so think this may be the best compromise setting. It needs a longer test to be sure, but if no further suggestions I will leave it as is.
JohH mentioned I should check the cooling as the needle does rise above horizontal when ticking over, and as the tickover is not so smooth when this happens, I had a quick look yesterday. I was not too worried as Arcturus says this is normal but I did find the radiator cap (not the expnsion bottle cap) had a perished seal. Brookhouse out of stock at the moment and local parts wholesaler had no idea where to look so I made one out of an old inner tube until I can get a new one. It has not made much (any?) difference today, so I will give it a flush (without a hose of course) and maybe try putting a cooler stat. in later to see what happens.
The bad news is that in my excitment I tripped and put my hands out as I went flat and caught my metal watch strap on the top of the front wing and headlight surround. Now have a 4 inch long white line (through to primer) on my blue paint to touch in.

[sainthonore]

Sorry not suggesting anything just posting on my own experience. My 164 never really ran right until I took the head off and had an unleaded conversion done. I didn't remove and replace the valves myself so I don't know how well they sat and it wasn't all carboned up. Before it never ticked over smoothly and REALLY pinked on even the slightest incline. Now the difference is really amazing (still have to have the timing retarded just a tad) and a joy to drive (just as well as it's my only car now).

[woolfie1948]

Thanks sainthonore thats interesting
In the back of my mind there was always the possibility that the head would have to come off. I see you are in the same county as me, did you have the work done locally?
I am hoping now however that mine is close to running well without.
Your car looks really good, do you go to any shows? The Croxley one is good and I will be there 6th May - so if you want to compare cars just turn up.