Amazon: 1964 Amazon 122S restoration project

[142 Guy]

Waste vegetable oil, so, no plans to run the engine in cold weather? The wax point of most vegetable oils is fairly high. I know the extra virgin olive oil based stuff I keep in my fridge for making bruschetta is pretty much a solid lump when it reaches fridge temperature. Given the recent run up in conventional hydrocarbon prices in GB I have to figure that some bright boy is going to realize that maybe waste vegetable oil isn't really waste.

If you want to be really out there you could consider the switch to wood gasification fuel which could be burnt in the B18 (with some modification). There seems to be a tiny cult of gasifier cars in some of the Northern European countries.

http://www.vedbil.se/veddrifte.shtml

There was a u Tube video kicking around about 5-10 years ago of some guys (not the above guys) with a Volvo 140 with a gasifier in the trunk with a smokestack sticking out. They towed a small trailer with a supply of wood in it (their fuel tank). With the smoke billowing out the stack it looked hilarious. I had a mental image of them trolling the neighborhood at night stealing peoples fences to fuel their car

Challenging restoration. The phrase ' some user assembly required' keeps popping to mind.

[Bob 1967]

Like to see that go through an MOT !
Eh sir , your emissions are a bit on the high side (probably just an advisory )

[Juular]

Originally Posted by 142 Guy

Waste vegetable oil, so, no plans to run the engine in cold weather?

We (as in a few of our group) have been running XUDs with Bosch pumps in cold weather (sub zero) for a while now without issues. In winter it can help to blend the WVO with some diesel or cut it with a little bit of petrol to thin it out. If we did have problems we could either increase the diesel percentage or just run it on straight diesel.

The main issue is the fuel filters, which you have to change fairly regularly.

It's still cheaper than running 100% diesel no matter which way you do it. And 100% diesel, at 50mpg, is still better than the mid 20s that I'm likely to expect from a B18.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Juular

We (as in a few of our group) have been running XUDs with Bosch pumps in cold weather (sub zero) for a while now without issues. In winter it can help to blend the WVO with some diesel or cut it with a little bit of petrol to thin it out. If we did have problems we could either increase the diesel percentage or just run it on straight diesel.

The main issue is the fuel filters, which you have to change fairly regularly.

It's still cheaper than running 100% diesel no matter which way you do it. And 100% diesel, at 50mpg, is still better than the mid 20s that I'm likely to expect from a B18.

I think it is a good idea - a 1960s Amazon with a diesel engine would be pretty cool, if it ran on used chippy oil that would be even cooler.

Was that engine fitted to any RWD motor cars? What would you plan to do for a clutch and gearbox?

Alan

[Juular]

Originally Posted by Othen

I think it is a good idea - a 1960s Amazon with a diesel engine would be pretty cool, if it ran on used chippy oil that would be even cooler.

Was that engine fitted to any RWD motor cars? What would you plan to do for a clutch and gearbox?

It was fitted to the LDV Pilot, some Suzukis and the Tata Loadbeta. Those use the LT77 / R380 gearbox from lots of British cars.

However I'm not convinced that will fit in the small Amazon transmission tunnel - I may be wrong. The M41 is just so compact in comparison.

Ideally I'd like to get an adapter plate made to fit the M41 with overdrive to the XUD. That way I'd keep the propshaft, original gearstick and entry point. The XUD spigot bearing is very narrow, so a larger one could be attached to the flywheel which also brings the bearing closer to the input shaft to compensate for the adapter plate.

All speculation at this point but I'm enjoying thinking about it.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Juular

It was fitted to the LDV Pilot, some Suzukis and the Tata Loadbeta. Those use the LT77 / R380 gearbox from lots of British cars.

However I'm not convinced that will fit in the small Amazon transmission tunnel - I may be wrong. The M41 is just so compact in comparison.

Ideally I'd like to get an adapter plate made to fit the M41 with overdrive to the XUD. That way I'd keep the propshaft, original gearstick and entry point. The XUD spigot bearing is very narrow, so a larger one could be attached to the flywheel which also brings the bearing closer to the input shaft to compensate for the adapter plate.

All speculation at this point but I'm enjoying thinking about it.

Why not fit a Rover L series diseasel as that will mate to the LT77 box without any problems? Also still in production as the Perkins Prima and nigh on unburstable. More reliable than the Pug unit too. Also probably easier (but certainly just as easy) to find an adaptor plate to keep your M41 box if that's what you decide to do.
Alternatively there's the VM424 and 425 engines as found in Range Rovers, Jeeps, Land Rovers, Alfa Romeos, Rover SD1s (so could come with the LT77 already attached), Rover 800s and so on.

Then there's the obvious one of a Volvo diseasel from a 240 but you'd have to import that from Europe i should think. This option might come with the right box already attached as well and would remain purely Volvo. Something in the back of my mind says the smaller Volvo diseasel was ~1700cc so a smidge smaller but i think they also did a larger one or two, 1900cc and 2100cc ish - finding one would be the tricky bit though. Had a look on tradera.com (like a Swedish ebay) but only found a few odd parts for a 240 diesel so ebay in Germany might be a better bet if you want to go down that route.

[Juular]

I think if I was going for an alternative diesel I'd like to use the D5252T. Not much in life sounds as right as a 5 cylinder diesel - it's like a locomotive!

It also runs on veg and there's bellhousings to match it up to an M90 volvo box I believe.

[Juular]

Ah yes, another small point in favour of the M41 is that it has the original speedo drive cable. Adapting the amazon speedo for an electronic drive seems like a right pain involving stepper motors and custom circuitry.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Juular

I think if I was going for an alternative diesel I'd like to use the D5252T. Not much in life sounds as right as a 5 cylinder diesel - it's like a locomotive!

It also runs on veg and there's bellhousings to match it up to an M90 volvo box I believe.

Originally Posted by Juular

Ah yes, another small point in favour of the M41 is that it has the original speedo drive cable. Adapting the amazon speedo for an electronic drive seems like a right pain involving stepper motors and custom circuitry.

The D5252T would be a good option, i would have suggested the D24TIC from a 7/9xx but i thought you were looking to keep it as a 4 cylinder - hence my suggestions of 4-pot engines. The LT77 box also has a cable drive speedo, even on the later ones that had an electronic speedo, just remove the sender and fit a normal drive pinion for the cable and the original cable will likely match up. The M40/41 boxes used the same right angle adaptor as many Triumph models of the 1960s/70s and i believe Rover used the same type of end on the LT77 for the cable drive speedos (SD1 up to ~1981) so shouldn't be too much of a problem with those.

There is another option with a 4-pot diesel and a 5 speed manual that might be worth looking into. Remember the Manta C series from ~1982 on? There was a GT/J model using the 1800 petrol Family II engine and 5-speed box. From 1984, Vauxhall had initially a 1.6 n/asp diesel based on the Family II and from later (1987 if memory serves) this became a LPT 1.7 TD, not to be confused with the even later 1.7 HPT Izusu TD also fitted to Astra/Cavalier models. Although FWD, these engines are easily turned round for RWD and should match to the Manta GT/J bellhousing.
Another option along similar lines was the Mk2 Carlton 2300D with 5-speed box. Don't think they did a turbo version but i doubt you'd need a turbo fitting it in the Amazon, also the Vauxhall boxes tend to be a bit more compact than the LT77 boxes.

Just throwing ideas at you really, many options around that would run on WVO. Also a drop of acetone in a tank of fuel will help atomisation, particularly if running WVO and improve economy/performance/emissions.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Juular

It was fitted to the LDV Pilot, some Suzukis and the Tata Loadbeta. Those use the LT77 / R380 gearbox from lots of British cars.

However I'm not convinced that will fit in the small Amazon transmission tunnel - I may be wrong. The M41 is just so compact in comparison.

Ideally I'd like to get an adapter plate made to fit the M41 with overdrive to the XUD. That way I'd keep the propshaft, original gearstick and entry point. The XUD spigot bearing is very narrow, so a larger one could be attached to the flywheel which also brings the bearing closer to the input shaft to compensate for the adapter plate.

All speculation at this point but I'm enjoying thinking about it.

... that is the exciting part about projects Juular: solving problems with a plan and then executing it.

I should think having an adaptor plate made by some CNC machine wouldn't be so expensive.

:-)