Poor starting

[Dippydog]

Step daughters C70...again! It's a 2001 2.4lpt manual,has begun taking several seconds to start once it does start it runs fine.While I'm going to borrow a code reader[it'll be a cheap one but hopefully it'll give me an idea what's going on]this coming weekend but maybe someone on here has some idea[s].Symptoms are a longer cranking time before it starts than it used to have but runs fine once started.Two things to note sometimes[but not every time]when cranking the rev counter needle will jump up to 2,000 revs before dropping instantly back to where it should be-so it's just a quick flick of the needle.Secondly on one start up last week the ETS light stayed on for her journey to work but hasn't done so since.Where does the rev counter pick its signal up from? On the journey with the ETS light lit the car ran fine without problems.

[Baffler]

Classic symptoms of a failing antenna ring but don't think it's related to the EML...it may be but possibly something engine related bringing that up.

Before throwing money at it firstly try removing the steering cowel and clean the antenna ring connections thoroughly with contact cleaner and see if that improves the poor starting.

Also check the battery terminals for good measure. And if you have a multimeter test the battery is holding over 12.5 volts overnight and should be receiving approximately 14 volts at idle.

[Dippydog]

Someone she works with used a cheap code reader on it yesterday and apparently it came up with crank position sensor which I must admit sounds plausible but will do other checks first before committing to buying one.If it does come down to that what brand is everyone buying and where from?

[Luxobarge]

Originally Posted by Dippydog

Someone she works with used a cheap code reader on it yesterday and apparently it came up with crank position sensor which I must admit sounds plausible but will do other checks first before committing to buying one.If it does come down to that what brand is everyone buying and where from?

OK, that does sound plausible. Even more so as you've stated that the rev counter plays tricks, and the feed for this comes from the ECU which in turn determines engine speed from the crank sensor. Unusual for it to just cause poor starting, but as I say more than plausible, and you're lucky that it's supported by a code.

To me this doesn't sound like antenna ring, symptoms for that is that the engine starts fine but almost immediately dies, which isn't quite the symptoms you're describing.

Given the code etc., I'd be looking at replacing the crank sensor and see how it goes. If it's on the way out better replace sooner rather than later, as if it goes completely then you're left with a totally dead engine.

Cheers!

[SnineT]

Originally Posted by Dippydog

Someone she works with used a cheap code reader on it yesterday and apparently it came up with crank position sensor which I must admit sounds plausible but will do other checks first before committing to buying one.If it does come down to that what brand is everyone buying and where from?

When that goes it shuts the whole car down, they are cleanable as a 1st mission if you can get it out without breaking it, also check the wires to it as they can fail as well.

[Dippydog]

Yes I know the engine will shut down/fail to start if the sensor dies-I've had it happen before on my Vauxhall Omega V6[they don't react well to aftermarket sensors so had to buy genuine from a main dealer for that].Didn't know you could try cleaning them though! What would you use to try that?Grateful for suggestions so far and always happy to hear any more.

[SnineT]

Originally Posted by Dippydog

Yes I know the engine will shut down/fail to start if the sensor dies-I've had it happen before on my Vauxhall Omega V6[they don't react well to aftermarket sensors so had to buy genuine from a main dealer for that].Didn't know you could try cleaning them though! What would you use to try that?Grateful for suggestions so far and always happy to hear any more.

Me too regarding the Omega, she misfired and spluttered for about a week before shutting down, I eventually had to take it to Vx as it had become a bit of a needle in a haystack without Tech II at the time, £260 to replace iirc and that was in 1999,

If you can get it out I would try carb or brake cleaner on it if a simple wipe doesn't clean it anyway,

Before you do though I would check the earth strap from the battery if you haven't already, I'd also suspect the starter motor as brush wear can make them lazy, I had a MKIII Cortina that did it but never got to the bottom of it,

When you say bad starting, is it slow cranking or simply taking longer to fire?

Reading back I don't think it's going to be the crank sensor so hold off that for a bit for now.


You mention longer cranking times, I'd be all over the fuel delivery systems first if the crank is strong but just taking longer to catch.

[Baffler]

Originally Posted by Luxobarge

To me this doesn't sound like antenna ring, symptoms for that is that the engine starts fine but almost immediately dies, which isn't quite the symptoms you're describing.

Good shout, Luxo, my mistake! I just hate to see people replacing parts unnecessary when it can be something as simple as cleaning a sensor or connection.

[Dippydog]

It cranks just fine but takes longer to fire than it did and generally seems worse when the engine is warm[just as my Omega did] I will however check earths etc and give it a go cleaning the CPS. If it comes down to replacing it are aftermarket ones any good? Admittedly the ones on the Volvo are easier to get to[being on top of the bellhousing]than the Omega[where you have to get underneath the car]but I'd rather not waste her money on aftermarket if they're not reliable enough.

[SnineT]

Originally Posted by Dippydog

It cranks just fine but takes longer to fire than it did and generally seems worse when the engine is warm[just as my Omega did] I will however check earths etc and give it a go cleaning the CPS. If it comes down to replacing it are aftermarket ones any good? Admittedly the ones on the Volvo are easier to get to[being on top of the bellhousing]than the Omega[where you have to get underneath the car]but I'd rather not waste her money on aftermarket if they're not reliable enough.

On reflection of further info in this order

Check the earth strap and the connections to the starter motor, it's even worth slackening them off a bit and clean the surfaces,

Ask her where she filled up last time and go elsewhere when that fuel is used up,

It's obviously getting fuel eventually which would be a new fuel filter 1st followed by plugs,

Scan it live if you have an ELM or similar,

Compression test it, these are cheap now you just need someone to crank it for you,

Check the timing is ok, if you don't have tools for it if the car idles ok and not advanced or other i.e should be 600 rpm but is 500 or 900 then I'd rule that out, lumpy idle or jerky driving it should be looked at,

Check spark coil pack if it has a block one, check spark leads if they're integrated,

If you have spark and fuel it would say bad starter motor or something that isn't viable to fix economically,

Look for any spark leakage, if it is a sensor it should be giving a code tbh.