"123" Programmable electronic ignition

[asneddon]

I've got a couple of maps now. Standard B20E and B20. to be honest there isnt a lot between them. They are on the 123 forum, which is very helpful. I'll post them if you want, but they are on my home PC, and Im at work at the moment.

The 123Tune has a temp sensor onboard, and it also has a manifold pressure sensor. Its not used as standard on the volvo engines I dont think. I'm planning on hooking it up on mine, as it should allow for some economy savings at light throttle (I guess).

[Volvo Canadian]

Hi - I've asked the seller if he can install the B20E curve, otherwise, I'll go on the forum, like you did, but we should stay in touch about all this. What mods do you have on your engine?

Yes, I understood there were other variables than rpm, so I guess that makes it 3+d mapping!? Not so simple.... I'm thinking right now I'll start with 8 degrees btdc instead of 10, and 30 at "max" rpm (3,800 is factory, I believe, maybe 29 at 5,000rpm). Whatever the curve is for engine temp, I'll stick with that (higher temp, faster combustion, lower advance, nothing to do with engine mods)

I am planning on getting the car on the dyno to check things out.

I for the vacuum, you have higher vacuum at low throttle, at which time you are running a lean mixture, which burns more slowly, so you want more advance. At zero vacuum (throttle open), you want zero vacuum advance, and at max vacuum (not sure what the units are) you want an advance of ....15 degrees??? Hmmmm, that means 25 degrees of advance at idle - cannot be right!! I'll look at the curves.


Okay - comments, please.

[asneddon]

My current engine is a B18 with Ruddspeed head, D cam, and Simonz headers and exhaust (but modified tailpipes back to factory sweeps). I have an 8 bolt Penta AQ130 I will build up slowly that will end up being a 2130cc with much more done to it. Considering a Turbo on it as well, hence getting the 123Tune now.

Im going with a static of 10degrees, and take it fairly slowly to 26degrees (so 36 total) at ~3500rpm, then flat up to 8000rpm. I'm also looking at sticking a dip in around 900rpm to make the idle hunt there.

I haven't decided what to do with the vacuum advance yet. I'll probably just play with someone else driving and see what the engine can handle. Once its close enough Ill stick it on the dyno and see what comes out.

[Volvo Canadian]

Hi - (great to talk to someone who is about where I am.)

So, you are talking about your current engine? Thirty-six degrees at 3500. Isn't that about factory? I'm hoping less, as if the curves are not much different than factory, might as well have ordered the regular dizzy.... I think you should be able to set the static as low as 8, but that is easy to check when you do it. I read on the forum a good idea is to set 4 degrees on the distributor, and than add 4 (or six) in the program, so you can change it easily.

I get programming the dip at 900rpm - make sure to tune your carbs first, I read on the forum. Also, I have read something elsewhere about setting the advance for revs lower than idle - so that when you let out the clutch and the revs drop, the engine responds appropriately. I'm not sure WHAT "appropriately" means, however: Hmmmm... at that point your vacum would drop and your fuel get richer. So that would mean faster burning, and therefore one could decrease the advance? Sounds right. Something to think-about anyway. That kind of thing is why I bought this thing.

I spent awhile on the 123 website, and cannot for the life of me figure-out how to load curves. Can you enlighten me? I downloaded the Set-up program, and read the manual.

All the best.

I don't see anybody who has written about their results either ????. I wonder about the advance past 3500, for example. Some curves (admittedly for corvettes and porches) the advance keeps going up a couple of degrees to 8000, which we will never reach. If the time for the piston to reach the optimal position for power is inversely proportional to the rpm, then the advance should keep increasing. Also, volumetric efficiency (breathing) increases with rpm, which means less advance. I'm gonna get my car on a dyno and see if I can check all these things out (unless I manage to find-out elsewhere - I think I'll post on the 123 forum!

I think for the vacum advance you want 10 degrees at 200mm Hg. and zero at 0mm.

[asneddon]

Yeah, its great to get some actual feedback.

About loading curves, I dont have mine in yet (Its hidden in the garage as the Wife doesnt know I bought it, and my laptop doesnt hold a charge anymore). My parents are off on holiday next week, so I will steal their laptop to tune on some lunchtime.

I assume when the laptop is plugged into the unit there appears some sort of 'load' button or something. I have a red dot on the lower left side of the software. This will turn green when it detects the distributor.

I'm planning on getting the car running on a pretty much standard curve (I drive it everyday, so dont want to blow anything), then fiddle with the #2 curve. Once I'm more confident and comfortable with the whole thing, I will optimise against each 1000rpm using the inbuilt rev timer thing, then take it to a dyno. No point jumping the gun on that.

I also know that my carbs have a leak around the shaft. I'm slowly rebuilding my spare set, but thats taking ages as things keep on breaking! I should have bought better condition ones rather than cheap messy ones. Oh well, live and learn.

I also found it strange that no one on the 123 forum posted before and after numbers. Lots of 'smoother idle', and stuff, but no actual numbers from a dyno. It isn't that expensive to take a couple of runs!

I have to admit, Im not up on the vacuum stuff yet. Small steps here

[Volvo Canadian]

Hi - Okay, well we might be getting to it at about the same time! I'm a little embarassed about spending that much too, but heck, I was gonna spend 4,000 to get programmable fuel-injection, just so I could play with all these things (and - admittedly - a few more). I'll admit to sending my carbs out to be done too, I HAVE to have this car in good nick, as I'm driving it across the country in September, which is a loooong way!

Yes, I find it odd there is not more on the 123 site from individuals who have really worked it. Maybe it is in there somewhere, and we just haven't found it yet. I looked pretty hard though!! I also did a general google image search on timing advance curves, and again was surprised how little there was, and mostly for race-cars and motorbikes.

Really looking forward to it.

James

[asneddon]

I didn't think the price was that bad. It's the same as a service for my Audi, so if you look at it that way then it's just running costs.

With my car, I'm taking things slow, but doing the best job and using the best bits money can buy. I expect to still be using in it another 48 years (if I'm still driving at 75!).

As someone (Cartier ?) said "quality remains long after the cost has been forgotten"

[Volvo Canadian]

Hi - Mine is a mixture of muscle and money - a lot of hard work, AND a lot of $$.

Anyways, I believe you said you were going to have to get your carbs rebuilt before you get into it. I think I will be away for 2 ro 3 weeks, and my 123 unit has not arrived yet (but my rebuilt carbs have!).

I'm not seeing anyone-else on here who has used this unit, so hopefully between us, we can blaze the trail a little later-on. I'll be spending a little more time on the 123 website in the meantime.

[asneddon]

I had a spare hour this morning. Wife and baby went shopping, so my 2 and 4 year olds 'helped' me fit it.

Took about 45 minutes, most of which was soldering and heatshrink work.

I built a standard curve with 0deg static because I'm not 100% confident in my timing torch. It all went extremely easily and fired up on the button.

As has been said before, idle is smoother. I haven't taken it for a run yet so don know anything about drivability. I also didn't get a dyno run first which is a shame.

Shoul. Be easy to swap back if required.

[TomTom]

Could I come in with a less technical question but on the same subject. I have just had the 123 installed on a B20A. The trouble I have now is that when I am pulling away in first it's like the revs drop too much, and I get a noise that sounds like the car is stalling (I did actually stall last week doing a three-point turn, which I haven't done in my life!).

Idle is strong, but a bit high, and there is a flat spot in the first 2-3 seconds after changing gear.

It was set to 17deg BTDC at idle/static.

Would I have to have the curve re-set?

Thanks

Tom