240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Bugjam1999]

Hi,

A nice car – looks like a good purchase and good to see you’re enjoying both fixing a few items and removing the previous owners… improvements.

Couple of things:

The ignition curve for the distributor – here is a link to an archive of Volvo service books and documents, I looked for and found a service book in the list that has various distributor curves in it when I swapped the distributor in my 1978 245 (now sold) for a later one to get rid of the points and condenser setup. With a bit of luck you’ll be able to find a curve for the distributor you have fitted and be able to compare it to the one that the engine had originally. You’ll need the serial number from the side of the distributor. Is the engine you have a B21A? If so I have the correct distributor for it which has a points setup in it, but that could (should) be replaced with an accuspark module to provide a fault-free reliable spark that doesn’t require any adjustment or maintenance. You can always keep a set of points and a condenser in the glovebox as a backup if you’re concerned the accuspark module might break (it won’t). For reference the distributor I have from a 1978 B21A is a Bosch JFU4.

https://ozvolvo.org/archive/

On the foglights/driving lights question - My 245 had foglights in the front grill and foglights on the tailgate that were connected to green switches on the dash that read ‘FOG LAMP’ and ‘REAR FOG LIGHT’. I have no reason to think the wiring was anything other than original – with the ‘FOG LAMP’ switch on, the front grill lights lit up with main beam.

Wing mounted mirrors – chances are there are just a couple of small M6? M8? Mounting holes for each one. I’d try removing one and blanking the holes with a couple of rubber grommets. As the top of the wing is black already I expect they wouldn’t be noticeable – and add to the ’40 years old and things have been added/removed over the years’ aesthetic if noticed.

And whilst typing I may as well mention - if you have any desire to swap from the automatic gearbox then let me know – I swapped my 245 from 4-speed to 5-speed and then sold the car; I’ve got a 4-speed gearbox, flywheel, clutch and propshaft in the garage.

Cheers

[Othen]

Originally Posted by loki_the_glt

My original lighting set-up on "Olaf the 2 - NGD396V" had both the fog lamps and the driving lamps wired through relays from an ignition live circuit (HRW perhap but it was 30-years ago) to separate dashboard switches with an 8-amp fuse for each lamp. It meant I could use the driving lamps to "flash" oncoming traffic rather than use the main beams, with their latching relay, for that purpose.

Olaf the 2 and the Royal Barge might have been brothers!

:-)

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Bugjam1999

Hi,

A nice car – looks like a good purchase and good to see you’re enjoying both fixing a few items and removing the previous owners… improvements.

Couple of things:

The ignition curve for the distributor – here is a link to an archive of Volvo service books and documents, I looked for and found a service book in the list that has various distributor curves in it when I swapped the distributor in my 1978 245 (now sold) for a later one to get rid of the points and condenser setup. With a bit of luck you’ll be able to find a curve for the distributor you have fitted and be able to compare it to the one that the engine had originally. You’ll need the serial number from the side of the distributor. Is the engine you have a B21A? If so I have the correct distributor for it which has a points setup in it, but that could (should) be replaced with an accuspark module to provide a fault-free reliable spark that doesn’t require any adjustment or maintenance. You can always keep a set of points and a condenser in the glovebox as a backup if you’re concerned the accuspark module might break (it won’t). For reference the distributor I have from a 1978 B21A is a Bosch JFU4.

https://ozvolvo.org/archive/

On the foglights/driving lights question - My 245 had foglights in the front grill and foglights on the tailgate that were connected to green switches on the dash that read ‘FOG LAMP’ and ‘REAR FOG LIGHT’. I have no reason to think the wiring was anything other than original – with the ‘FOG LAMP’ switch on, the front grill lights lit up with main beam.

Wing mounted mirrors – chances are there are just a couple of small M6? M8? Mounting holes for each one. I’d try removing one and blanking the holes with a couple of rubber grommets. As the top of the wing is black already I expect they wouldn’t be noticeable – and add to the ’40 years old and things have been added/removed over the years’ aesthetic if noticed.

And whilst typing I may as well mention - if you have any desire to swap from the automatic gearbox then let me know – I swapped my 245 from 4-speed to 5-speed and then sold the car; I’ve got a 4-speed gearbox, flywheel, clutch and propshaft in the garage.

Cheers

Thank you, I must say that everyone has been so helpful at this forum.

I am told (by Clan) that the distributor is from a 360 GLT - I have not checked that yet, but I will now I know how. Thank you for the link, I'll follow this up and see if what I have is suitable. The engine is a B21A (carburettor), so if I get stuck I may come back to you for the distributor - I would not want to go back to a CB setup, but as you say the electronic points are very reliable, and inexpensive.

From what you say it would seem my car has exactly the same switchgear as did yours - so it may well be all standard:



Apart from the horrible one blu-tacked into the middle, which will be heading for the bin. I'm hoping the PO will have left the original wiring behind the front fog lamp switch to save me pulling more cable through... watch this space.

As I mentioned earlier today - I'm going off the the wing mirrors, and had thought about blanking them off with some grommets. I need to get access to the inside of the wing to see if there some nuts underneath, so I might as well do it when I put the bonnet release together properly as I'll need to take the wing inner cover off then.

That is an interesting idea about converting the car to manual, I'll think on it. I quite like autos (generally) but I must admit a 3 speeder does feel a bit strained these days. Many thanks again let me come back to you on that.

Best wishes,

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Many thanks Dave,

I'm guessing they are all 60W bulbs, so we entirely agree on that being a very sensible plan for the driving lights.

I'd quite like to get these two jobs done this week as next is half term (my son and I will have a road trip to Devon and Hampshire (not is the Volvo - if the weather isn't too bad we'll take the Porsche, if it is poor we'll use the sensible car (diesel estate car)).

The Royal Barge is coming along quite nicely - at this rate I should have all the jobs on my current to-do list finished by about the end of February (but of course I'll find some more as I go...).

Thank you so much for your help.

Alan

You're welcome Alan, being picky, the main beam and the fog and driving lights are 55W bulbs, dipped beam are the 60W bulbs - makes sense when you remember there is a shade inside the H4 bulb to prevent downward light from the filament. All the light goes upwards to the reflector to shine down on the road, apart from the "kick-up".

Good luck for your trip "dahn sarf", rumour has it we have another storm (Storm Dennis unofficially) coming at the weekend so might pay to wait a day or two and see how it pans out.

As for getting all the jobs done by the end of February, i said similar 3 1/2 years ago and someone said "Which February?" - they were right!

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

That is an interesting idea about converting the car to manual, I'll think on it. I quite like autos (generally) but I must admit a 3 speeder does feel a bit strained these days. Many thanks again let me come back to you on that.

Best wishes,

Alan

The other option is go for the AW70 4-speed (4th is an overdrive) auto box from a later 240, it will keep the car as an auto if that's what you like and give you the extra ratio for long distance use.
Daresay yu could also use the ZF4HP22 as also fitted to later models, again overdrive 4th on it.

Something that crossed my mind on the mirrors, instead of completely doing away with them, use a pair of these instead, set up so you see where the rear wheels etc are for reversing into tight spaces.

https://www.europaspares.com/exterio...vex-glass.html

If it's a single bolt fixing, these would work instead :

https://www.europaspares.com/exterio...glass-275.html

There are loads to chooose from with so many different suppliers selling them, those are just two i picked at random to show the idea i was trying to convey.

Just ideas/food for thought.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

You're welcome Alan, being picky, the main beam and the fog and driving lights are 55W bulbs, dipped beam are the 60W bulbs - makes sense when you remember there is a shade inside the H4 bulb to prevent downward light from the filament. All the light goes upwards to the reflector to shine down on the road, apart from the "kick-up".

Good luck for your trip "dahn sarf", rumour has it we have another storm (Storm Dennis unofficially) coming at the weekend so might pay to wait a day or two and see how it pans out.

As for getting all the jobs done by the end of February, i said similar 3 1/2 years ago and someone said "Which February?" - they were right!

... you may be right about 'which February' - except that when I start on projects I tend to become a bit obsessive until they are 'done' (older cars and bikes are never done of course...).

We'll keep an eye on the weather - I was just outside vacuuming the Royal Barge's seats and carpets (report to follow next) and it is blooming cold!

Alan

[Othen]

It would be surprising if this 40 year old car didn't reveal a few horrors. I was outside vacuuming the Royal Barge's seats and carpets (the 1980s velour came up pretty well) and whilst doing the boot I found a thick audio power type cable under the spare wheel. I thought I'd better check it wasn't live (no one would leave a live wire with a bare end dangling in a car boot, would they...), and found it was - 12.6V!

I checked out the battery and found the other end connected directly to it:



You may see here - it is the thick red wire at the bottom, the quite expensive car HiFi type cable, so some PO must have had some sort of amplifier or a CD changer in the boot, and just left this when he/she removed it (I don't think the last owner - some time ago I suspect). The cable is isolated and one day I'll get rid of it completely, but the electrical horrors don't end there.

The thin bare wire you may see at the bottom of the photo was for the alarm, it had no connector, the bare wire was just wedged into the battery terminal (as was the similar black one to the -ve post). I don't like alarms at the best of times, the only thing they really achieve is annoying one's neighbours, so the two bare wires are neatly taped away and when I get a moment I'll trace them to the alarm unit and remove it completely.

That just left 3 more non-Volvo wires connected to the +ve post. The HiFi looking one screwed to the top (actually obscured by my thumb) turned out to be the permanent live for the radio - I'm guessing a PO (probably some years ago, I don't think the chap I bought it from) must have fitted some pretty power hungry audio equipment (not the neat and tidy Sony fitted now). It will do for now, but I'm not sure whether the radio has any fuse protection, so I suspect that will come out one day.

... which brings us on to the final 2 non-Volvo positive conductors. The one entering from the left powers the ugly switch for the accessory lights on the dashboard (hence it is live all the time rather than being switched with the lights and so will have to go, but it may save me pulling through a cable). The one entering the photo from the right is the power for the accessory lights - it must run to a relay somewhere, but I ran out of inclination to trace it any further (it has turned really cold and windy this afternoon), so I left it there.

So, a cursory check ended up revealing a whole load of horrors, which will all need either removing or modifying to make them safe. It is too late to start this today ... tomorrow is another day.

There is some good news: the accessory lighting installation seems to have been done quite professionally to start with as it runs through proper trunking (although I have a feeling a second set of lights may have been added later). I may be able to re-use some of the wiring.

If these are the only horrors I find with the Royal Barge I will be really pleased.

Alan

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

The other option is go for the AW70 4-speed (4th is an overdrive) auto box from a later 240, it will keep the car as an auto if that's what you like and give you the extra ratio for long distance use.
Daresay yu could also use the ZF4HP22 as also fitted to later models, again overdrive 4th on it.

Something that crossed my mind on the mirrors, instead of completely doing away with them, use a pair of these instead, set up so you see where the rear wheels etc are for reversing into tight spaces.

https://www.europaspares.com/exterio...vex-glass.html

If it's a single bolt fixing, these would work instead :

https://www.europaspares.com/exterio...glass-275.html

There are loads to chooose from with so many different suppliers selling them, those are just two i picked at random to show the idea i was trying to convey.

Just ideas/food for thought.

Now I quite like that idea Dave - fitting a 4 speeder auto, my other cars are both 6 speed manuals, so it is quite nice for the Royal Barge to be a bit different. I'm guessing someone on these pages will have fitted an AW70 box to a 3 speeder, and might be able to give some advice on the difficulties (it would be nice if it were to be a direct swap).

I'm still thinking about the wing mirrors, I didn't mind them to start with, but now they are irritating me a bit because the alignment changes whenever I open to bonnet, or even just brush against them. I'm tending towards getting rid of them and filling the holes with some grommets as long as the surface below them isn't too messed up. The door mirrors work perfectly, so there is no need for anything more.

I think I have the accessory lights piece clear in my mind now. Many thanks for your help.

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Now I quite like that idea Dave - fitting a 4 speeder auto, my other cars are both 6 speed manuals, so it is quite nice for the Royal Barge to be a bit different. I'm guessing someone on these pages will have fitted an AW70 box to a 3 speeder, and might be able to give some advice on the difficulties (it would be nice if it were to be a direct swap).

I'm still thinking about the wing mirrors, I didn't mind them to start with, but now they are irritating me a bit because the alignment changes whenever I open to bonnet, or even just brush against them. I'm tending towards getting rid of them and filling the holes with some grommets as long as the surface below them isn't too messed up. The door mirrors work perfectly, so there is no need for anything more.

I think I have the accessory lights piece clear in my mind now. Many thanks for your help.

Alan

Volvo fitted the AW70 to later 240s so i see no reason why it shouldn't be more or less a straight swap Alan but you'll probably need the propshaft too.

I would leave the mirrors alone for a bit if i were you, mull it over and make your decision. They're kind of part of the character of the car, even if you changed them for some that weren't knocked out of adjustment so easily along the lines of what i suggested above or just ignored them when they were out of adjustment and relied on the door mirrors instead.
That aside, you could easily fit blind grommets in place of the bolt hole/screw holes or a blob of filler and spray it satin black to match the wing tops (it looks like satin black anyway) or go high-tech and mount cameras in the bolt holes with displays each end of the dash as extra mirrors.

Again, just food for thought!

Glad the diagram for the front fogs was helpful, the circuit will allow the front fogs to work on sidelights and dipped beam but not full beam. Even if you flash someone while on dipped beam with the fogs on, they will go out while main beam is activated then come back on when released.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Volvo fitted the AW70 to later 240s so i see no reason why it shouldn't be more or less a straight swap Alan but you'll probably need the propshaft too.

I would leave the mirrors alone for a bit if i were you, mull it over and make your decision. They're kind of part of the character of the car, even if you changed them for some that weren't knocked out of adjustment so easily along the lines of what i suggested above or just ignored them when they were out of adjustment and relied on the door mirrors instead.
That aside, you could easily fit blind grommets in place of the bolt hole/screw holes or a blob of filler and spray it satin black to match the wing tops (it looks like satin black anyway) or go high-tech and mount cameras in the bolt holes with displays each end of the dash as extra mirrors.

Again, just food for thought!

Glad the diagram for the front fogs was helpful, the circuit will allow the front fogs to work on sidelights and dipped beam but not full beam. Even if you flash someone while on dipped beam with the fogs on, they will go out while main beam is activated then come back on when released.

Ah, cunning, so the link to terminal 85 works like a NAND gate, I had not appreciated that and it is quite clever. Once I have the existing setup apart I think I might be able to design a good working system around or and your design.

I'm seeing the Royal Barge as a very long term project, so the idea of converting the transmission to a 4 speeder might well be on the cards once I have it running nicely (only a few weeks away). I might start looking out for an AW70 gearbox at a good price. If it is a fairly straight swap then access looks good. In the meantime the Royal Barge is quite good fun.

The wing mirrors: you are right - I won't be too hasty. What is there is not offensive. When I take the driver's side wheel arch cover off to route the bonnet release properly I'll see how the mirrors are secured and decide what to do with them. My gut feeling is to get rid, but that might change.

I'm enjoying this project and can't wait to get on with the next job :-)

Alan