XC60 Tyres.

[RoyMacDonald]

Originally Posted by darb

regardless of wear, winter tyres in summer weather, wet or dry, will not deliver the same level of performance as summer tyres. there is a greater risk of aquaplaning and losing traction in dry and wet weather under braking. for me, safety and performance is far more important than wear. come to think of it, isn't that why winter tyres are chosen? for safety and performance reasons.

that said, it all depends on the quality of the tyres involved of course. i imagine the best performing winter tyres would outperform the worst summer tyres. the pirelli p zero rosso SUV OEM's for the XC60 get a bad rap for wear, but many various independent ratings suggest they are a very high performing tyre in summer weather.

on the subject of wear alone, it is well known that the softer natural rubber based compounds wear quicker in warm weather than the firmer synthetic based compounds of a similar quality tyre. again though, there will be cases where some winter tyres may wear at similar rates to some summer tyres. it wouldn't generally be the case though - certainly not from the wide range of reviews i've read.

I don't know where you are getting your information from. But in the real world this simply isn't true.

My Vredestien Wintrac 4 Extreme winter tyres have been on my XC90 for 4 years and are wearing at a rate of 1mm per 12,000 miles. That's 72,000 miles to the legal limit. Try and get that with a summer tyre.

There are grip figures on the Vredstenstien web site. The grip in the dry is a tiny fraction less, but massively better in the wet, mud and snow, which is where I want the best grip.

I was absolutly gobsmacked at how much better they were the first time I drove in the wet with them. Also you can still brake hard enough in the snow to throw stuff off the back seat.

Winter tyres have lower rolling resistance than summer tyres.

[darbs]

Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald

I don't know where you are getting your information from. But in the real world this simply isn't true.

My Vredestien Wintrac 4 Extreme winter tyres have been on my XC90 for 4 years and are wearing at a rate of 1mm per 12,000 miles. That's 72,000 miles to the legal limit. Try and get that with a summer tyre.

There are grip figures on the Vredstenstien web site. The grip in the dry is a tiny fraction less, but massively better in the wet, mud and snow, which is where I want the best grip.

I was absolutly gobsmacked at how much better they were the first time I drove in the wet with them. Also you can still brake hard enough in the snow to throw stuff off the back seat.

Winter tyres have lower rolling resistance than summer tyres.

regarding performance here's some stats from tyrereviews.co.uk

Snow: Summer tyre offered 48% braking and 51% of the cornering of winter
Warm wet: Winter tyre offered 90% braking and 95% cornering of the summer tyre
Dry: Winter tyre offered 83% braking and 97% of the cornering

their "somewhat scientific" test shows that winter tyres are miles better in winter. similarly, this same test shows that summer tyres generally perform better in warm weather.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article...erformance.htm

i don't doubt the winter tyres you have perform well in summer conditions, and maybe better than many summer tyres, but i very much doubt they will be as good as the best summer tyres. it would be interesting to see them in a controlled test against the XC60 OEM's though.

regarding wear, i have seen a lot of individual stories of people getting a fair amount of wear out of winter tyres during the summer. it's indeed true that manufacturing techniques of winter tyres have improved in recent times. that said, i've not seen any manufacturer claim that their winter tyres wear well in summer. i've only seen the odd disclaimer warning of higher wear and reduced performance in warmer temperatures.

[wimorrison]

I wonder why it is that Germany and the Nordic countries specify when winter tyres must be used and conversely when summer tyres must be used? If they thought that winter tyres were so good then they would keep them on all the time.

I will take my lead from my friends and colleagues who live there and would never contemplate using winter tyres in the summer for many of the reasons postulated by Darb. I also know from my own experience that we used to use winter tyres when we wanted extra grip (movement of large loads over wet and slippy concrete roads) knowing that this extra grip came at a heavy cost as the tyres wore out very quickly in summer.

Good luck with your tyres, I am always amazed at the staggering feats that people manage to achieve on mileage with fuel and tyres - I never seem to get anywhere the same range of you hypermilers

[RoyMacDonald]

Originally Posted by darb

regarding performance here's some stats from tyrereviews.co.uk

Snow: Summer tyre offered 48% braking and 51% of the cornering of winter
Warm wet: Winter tyre offered 90% braking and 95% cornering of the summer tyre
Dry: Winter tyre offered 83% braking and 97% of the cornering

their "somewhat scientific" test shows that winter tyres are miles better in winter. similarly, this same test shows that summer tyres generally perform better in warm weather.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article...erformance.htm

i don't doubt the winter tyres you have perform well in summer conditions, and maybe better than many summer tyres, but i very much doubt they will be as good as the best summer tyres. it would be interesting to see them in a controlled test against the XC60 OEM's though.

regarding wear, i have seen a lot of individual stories of people getting a fair amount of wear out of winter tyres during the summer. it's indeed true that manufacturing techniques of winter tyres have improved in recent times. that said, i've not seen any manufacturer claim that their winter tyres wear well in summer. i've only seen the odd disclaimer warning of higher wear and reduced performance in warmer temperatures.

The link you pasted had this to say....Unsurprisingly the summer tyres won the dry and wet tests, but the winter tyre averaged just over 10% behind it's summer counter part which is closer than expected. During the snow test, the summer tyre had less than 50% of the grip.

The all season tyre had similar properties to the winter tyre, offering a little more grip in the dry and wet, and a little less grip in the snow. This just goes to prove the naming terms the tyre industry use are too generalised, as we're quite confident another brand of ??all season tyre?? would mirror the summer tyres performance.

Our advice? If you commute during the winter and rely on your car to get to work, winter tyres will give superior grip on cold mornings without sacrificing more than 10% of summer tyre performance during the odd freak warm day

This was on a road circuit. I drive on unpaved road as well. The reason I have an XC90. Summer tyres just don't cut it off road. I don't mind losing 10% grip in the dry for the wet, mud and snow grip up to 50% or even more off road.

Attached is Vredenstein's info on winter tyres.

[RoyMacDonald]

Originally Posted by wimorrison

I wonder why it is that Germany and the Nordic countries specify when winter tyres must be used and conversely when summer tyres must be used? If they thought that winter tyres were so good then they would keep them on all the time.

I will take my lead from my friends and colleagues who live there and would never contemplate using winter tyres in the summer for many of the reasons postulated by Darb. I also know from my own experience that we used to use winter tyres when we wanted extra grip (movement of large loads over wet and slippy concrete roads) knowing that this extra grip came at a heavy cost as the tyres wore out very quickly in summer.

Good luck with your tyres, I am always amazed at the staggering feats that people manage to achieve on mileage with fuel and tyres - I never seem to get anywhere the same range of you hypermilers

That's not quite right those laws say that you must have winter tyres fitted during the winter season. They do not say you must not have them fitted the rest of the year.

Vredestien and Nokian have both been emailed by XC90 owners and asked if it's OK to run all year with them and the answer was yes it's fine.

[wimorrison]

Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald

That's not quite right those laws say that you must have winter tyres fitted during the winter season. They do not say you must not have them fitted the rest of the year.

Vredestien and Nokian have both been emailed by XC90 owners and asked if it's OK to run all year with them and the answer was yes it's fine.

Perhaps not, but you will find out when you live there that motorists change the winter tyres for summer at the correct time of year and have the tyres stored at a tyre hotel.

If they see that as the best way to do things - they are not doing it for fun - as I said I will stick with practices that the many millions of them see as best practice rather than your perspective.

Vredenstein and Nokian will also tell you that it is OK to keep summer tyres on the car all year

[andyfromembsay]

As a pretty low mileage driver (shortish commute and bugger all else really), if it's a bit six and two threes to keep winter/all season tyres on all year i might put some on when mine wear out. I've seen amazing claims for Nokian tyres - are these the ones to go for?

[darbs]

Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald

This was on a road circuit.

i did say "somewhat scientific". still more scientific than the bloke down the pub though!

Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald

I drive on unpaved road as well. The reason I have an XC90. Summer tyres just don't cut it off road.

there's no doubt winter tyres are better on mud. the tread pattern for mud is similar to that for snow and ice.

Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald

I don't mind losing 10% grip in the dry for the wet

you might not, but many would. it obviously depends on your circumstances. for me wet and dry grip in town, on motorways and country roads is my main concern.

Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald

Attached is Vredenstein's info on winter tyres.

it's graphs appear to show pretty much the same info on the tyrereview website. ie much, much better in winter, but slightly worse in summer.

[RoyMacDonald]

Originally Posted by andyfromembsay

As a pretty low mileage driver (shortish commute and bugger all else really), if it's a bit six and two threes to keep winter/all season tyres on all year i might put some on when mine wear out. I've seen amazing claims for Nokian tyres - are these the ones to go for?

Nokian and Vredenstien have both been very highly rated on the XC90 forum. Vredenstien on the LandRover forums.

You need to think ahead when buying though because the demand over the winter this year means almost all the stocks are sold out and it will be mid summer before stocks pick up again. You may find some at inflated prices but better if you can wait till later in the year when you'll have some choice. Oponeo still have a few and are one of the cheapest suppliers and have an excellent delivery service. But you wont get a lot of choice at this time of year at the moment.

[RoyMacDonald]

[QUOTE=darb;872116]

you might not, but many would. it obviously depends on your circumstances. for me grip in town, on motorways and country roads is my main concern.


QUOTE]

Don't be too sure. Look how many people drive around with tread below 4mm. You've lost 50% of your grip by then.

I really don't mind what other people use. I'm just trying to be helpfull. Had a lot of fun this year towing people up hills in the snow.