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timing belt failure

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Old Sep 18th, 2021, 11:46   #21
Laird Scooby
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I checked the service records yesterday, (Friday) the PDI was done on 18th September 1992 so it's 29 years old today.

The first and it seems the only cam belt change was done at 107000mls
It lasted 60000mls before it let go. (167270mls current )

The broken one is a Q&H so although the recommended period is 50k mls between changes, it is nowhere near the 107k the original lasted. (thats assuming it wasn't done in between and not listed on the records)

My son had a belt fail on a 1.4 mk4 golf (no real service history but it had done 75kmls) I changed it and replaced valves etc and, the replacement belt broke after 50000mls. Point being after market parts are not as good as originals.

I will post when I've changed the belt whether there's any engine damage, that will be a reference for any other owners who ask my original question, namely, is the b200f a non-interference engine.

Regards ken.
What was the date of first registration though? It will be on your V5C. The PDI isn't usually done until the car has been registered as generally the number plates are made and fitted as part of the PDI, even if it doesn't say so in the PDI check list. Put another way, there's no point doing a PDI on an unsold car so they wait until it's sold, register it with the DVLA and then PDI it, fitting the plates at the same time.

I would think the original belt would have been changed at 48k mile service. That suggests the second new belt was fitted at 107k according to your records. I wonder if it was retensioned after 600 miles as it should be? When retensioning, the engine must be at TDC on #1 (timed position), remove the rubber bung/grommet from the front face of the upper timing cover and with a socket on an extension bar, slacken the timing tensioner locknut. Allow the tensioner spring to tighten the belt then tighten the locknut again. The upper cover can be removed to do this but it's easier to just use the rubber bung.

In terms of belt life, it varies a lot from engine to engine and if things like retensioning (if specified) aren't done then it can shorten the life of the belt. I don't know what you were told about the timing belt interval on the Golf but it's 40k miles, VW dropped it to that from 90000km (56k miles) and issued a Technical Bulletin to that effect :

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/p...ex.htm?t=58972

Continental are still showing 90000km for the Golf IV, presumably they haven't seen the VAG TB on the subject!

https://www.continental-industry.com...-intervals.pdf

That aside, i would work on replacement at 40k miles or 4 years on your Volvo, whichever comes sooner rather than waiting for it to break again. For the cost of the belt, it would pay for itself in peace of mind if nothing else!

My Rover is only on its second timing belt, the first one was changed at 96k as per the service schedule but also because the water pump started leaking (which it's designed to do at ~120k miles on that engine) so by rights, it's now overdue on a time basis but well within the mileage criteria having only done 18k on the new belt. My Volvo has never seen a timing belt in its life, nor will it.

Checking the correct TB intervals and occasional inspection of the belt will help to prevent another breakdown in the future, just because a previous belt outlasted expectations doesn't mean to say the new one will, the recommendations are there for a reason!
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Old Sep 18th, 2021, 12:15   #22
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Wow! thanks Dave, you don't arf know a lot of stuff!

I checked the reg doc v5c ...18th sept '92 registered.

I saw that 600ml re-tension advice in a tutorial I found. Made me wonder if it had been done, or is ever done unless a vehicle is serviced at a Volvo agent.

I've had to buy my parts from eBay, my usual suppliers said they couldn't get them or, they couldn't get them for days.

My nearest Volvo dealership had nobody working on Friday in "parts".

I've still got to wait for parts till next week but a lot less money than my usual suppliers. At least it gives my poor old body a chance to recover a bit.

Kind regards Ken.
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Old Sep 18th, 2021, 12:37   #23
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Wow! thanks Dave, you don't arf know a lot of stuff!

I checked the reg doc v5c ...18th sept '92 registered.

I saw that 600ml re-tension advice in a tutorial I found. Made me wonder if it had been done, or is ever done unless a vehicle is serviced at a Volvo agent.

I've had to buy my parts from eBay, my usual suppliers said they couldn't get them or, they couldn't get them for days.

My nearest Volvo dealership had nobody working on Friday in "parts".

I've still got to wait for parts till next week but a lot less money than my usual suppliers. At least it gives my poor old body a chance to recover a bit.

Kind regards Ken.
You're welcome Ken, i think by the early 90s when your car was first registered, things were speeding up with the DVLA and instead of having to send someone from the dealership to the nearest VRO (Vehicle Registration Office which could be a major Post Office at the time as well) to register a batch of vehicles with the DVLA, many dealers were able to do it by phone or had pre-assigned numbers which they matched to VIN numbers and the registration dates, later they were able to do it on t'internet bypassing the Post Office/VRO completely.

Something that should have been asked before, does your cam pulley have square or round teeth? Have you ordered the correct belt for the type of teeth? I believe it was around 1992 they changed so well worth checking!

I know the feeling about letting your body recover, i suspect i'm a bit younger than you but thanks to life taking a heavy toll struggle to do in one day what i could easily have done in an hour a few years back.

Use the time to rest and gather your thoughts and tools to do the job. A little tip to remove the crank pulley bolt if you can't use the methods already suggested is put the correct sized socket on a 2' breaker bar and fit it on the crank pulley with the bar pointing towards the left hand side of the car with the end close to the ground. "Flick" the starter on the key, in other words turn briefly to position 3/start and release as soon as the engine starts to move. That is usually enough to shock the pulley bolt free as the breaker bar hits the deck.
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Old Sep 18th, 2021, 18:23   #24
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PM sent re Crankshaft locking tool.
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Old Sep 22nd, 2021, 14:13   #25
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Hi, my 1991 940 2 litre died yesterday at a busy junction, there was no noise or drama that I could hear above the traffic noise but, after investigation the timing belt has snapped.

The burning question is..... is this engine, (I believe a B200f but could be wrong
a NON interference engine?

There are numerous threads I've seen on the web and, some say a red block engine is a safe, i.e. non interference engine and others saying their b200f had damage.

Is it a case of strip it and look or is there a definitive answer to interference or NON interference?

Many thanks Ken
So... I said I would post my results of my timing belt change, and.... in answer to my original question... the b200f is 75% non-interference (in my case.)

Number 3 cylinder has zero pressure on the pressure test after the belt fitted.

At first I think I was a tooth out.( It's easy to do, the marks are not exact)

It ran really bad and noisy till I re timed the belt, It runs much better now but, there is a knocking noise; like a really noisy tappet makes.

So it's head off and, replace the damaged parts or....head off to a dealer to buy a replacement car. By the time I've done that and sold on my tank I could have repaired her.

Thanks for all the helpful replies, much appreciated. Ken
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Old Sep 22nd, 2021, 14:28   #26
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So... I said I would post my results of my timing belt change, and.... in answer to my original question... the b200f is 75% non-interference (in my case.)

Number 3 cylinder has zero pressure on the pressure test after the belt fitted.

At first I think I was a tooth out.( It's easy to do, the marks are not exact)

It ran really bad and noisy till I re timed the belt, It runs much better now but, there is a knocking noise; like a really noisy tappet makes.

So it's head off and, replace the damaged parts or....head off to a dealer to buy a replacement car. By the time I've done that and sold on my tank I could have repaired her.

Thanks for all the helpful replies, much appreciated. Ken
Speak to Luke (360beast) i think he has some B200F parts around at the moment. Whichever way you do it, you'll need to shim the valves that will be changed and if you're changing one or two valves on #3, you may as well clean and lap the other valves as well and check all the clearances. Little tip - don't fit the hushers until you've checked/adjusted the clearances as they can contribute to incorrect readings.
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Old Sep 22nd, 2021, 14:44   #27
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Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
Speak to Luke (360beast) i think he has some B200F parts around at the moment. Whichever way you do it, you'll need to shim the valves that will be changed and if you're changing one or two valves on #3, you may as well clean and lap the other valves as well and check all the clearances. Little tip - don't fit the hushers until you've checked/adjusted the clearances as they can contribute to incorrect readings.
Thank you, I will contact Luke.

I'm confused as to how or why the new valves would be shimmed but, when I've dismantled the head I expect it will become clear.

Regards ken
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Old Sep 22nd, 2021, 14:52   #28
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Thank you, I will contact Luke.

I'm confused as to how or why the new valves would be shimmed but, when I've dismantled the head I expect it will become clear.

Regards ken
The valves are shimmed to set the clearance correctly. Different shim thicknesses are available to achieve this. Make sure when you dismantle the head you keep the shims numbered with their associated valves so they go back in the right places. Also if you're going to lap the rest of the valves in (would be a wise choice), check the clearances after doing that rather than before.
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Old Sep 24th, 2021, 12:00   #29
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Ken - Luke will have my B200F engine in a week or so to do an engine swap. It's dead due to head gasket failure & block corrosion but the pistons, valves, crank, etc should be all good. I sourced a replacement engine which Luke has reconditioned for me so if there are any bits from mine which can help yours live that would be a good outcome. My car is the same year as yours so should be a straight swap.
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Old Sep 30th, 2021, 11:50   #30
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Ken - Luke will have my B200F engine in a week or so to do an engine swap. It's dead due to head gasket failure & block corrosion but the pistons, valves, crank, etc should be all good. I sourced a replacement engine which Luke has reconditioned for me so if there are any bits from mine which can help yours live that would be a good outcome. My car is the same year as yours so should be a straight swap.
Thank you,
I spoke to Luke about parts which Dave said luke might have, he only has used parts. He told me he will have your engine soon Kiloran. If there is anything I will require from it to let him know. ( Thanks both)

Luke gave me an excellent tip (hope I'm not giving away his trade secrets) for removing/replacing the valve collets. As follows.... large G clamp and a Lambda socket with a magnetised screwdriver or the like to catch/put them in position.

Regards Ken
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