850 tdi kerb weight

[outnumbered]

hi all
i hope that someone may help about kerb weights.
i have a 1996 850 2.5 tdi, i have taken the following from the plate in the engine bay.
1 2000
2 3600
3 1090
4 1010
i have copied this
Kerbweight 1412 kgs Unbraked tow weight: 700
85% of kerbweight: 1200 kgs Braked tow weight: 700 kgs

95% of Kerbweight: 1341 kgs

in my hand book its says i can tow a braked trailer up to 1600 at 50 mph.
the reason i ask we are looking to buy a bailey pageant burgundy and the weights are
MIRO 1158
MTPLM 1400
so looking at that i will be very near my actual kerb weight.
thanks
mike

[gary1638]

Mike,
The weights shown on the plate are:
1. Gross weight of vehicle (unladen weight plus that allowed for passengers, luggage etc.)
2. Train weight - total gross weight of car and any trailer it will pull.
3. Max weight allowed for front axle
4. Max weight allowed for rear axle.

My previous towcar was an 850 T5 saloon and this pulled my pageant bordeaux (1366kg) with no problems. As far as I know, the max weight for towing a braked trailer was 1600kg, but I was not aware of any speed restriction. Where did you find that? Noseweight is 75kg.

I used my 850 for 3 years, twice to Italy, and found it a fine tow car, albeit a little thirsty!

[outnumbered]

Originally Posted by gary1638

Mike,
The weights shown on the plate are:
1. Gross weight of vehicle (unladen weight plus that allowed for passengers, luggage etc.)
2. Train weight - total gross weight of car and any trailer it will pull.
3. Max weight allowed for front axle
4. Max weight allowed for rear axle.

My previous towcar was an 850 T5 saloon and this pulled my pageant bordeaux (1366kg) with no problems. As far as I know, the max weight for towing a braked trailer was 1600kg, but I was not aware of any speed restriction. Where did you find that? Noseweight is 75kg.

I used my 850 for 3 years, twice to Italy, and found it a fine tow car, albeit a little thirsty!

hi gary
the info was taken out of the 850 handbook section 3.13, yes it does say 1600kg but with a maximum speed of 50 mph, it also states that the max weight and speed limit are imposed by volvo car corproation.
thanks
mike

[DaveM241]

Mike;
You are quite correct in that the van you are proposing to buy is very close to the kerbside weight of your towcar - in fact as far as a calculator goes you are at 100%. The 85% kerside weight is not actually law but an advice over the years on safe towing and stability which seems to have been universally adopted by the towing and legal communities. There used to be an argument amongst traffic officer ( 14 years experience) that although the 85% is not law, there are other laws that could be used. The plate you refer to under the bonnet is the plate that Traffic / Vosa officers use to determine your legal weights. If one subtracts the Max weight (2000kg) from the Train weight (3600kg) you are left with 1600kg. So in theory you are legally allowed to tow a van up to 1600kg. My experience tells me you would have a devils own job in keeping below the rear axle weight of 1010kg ( column 4 on your plate) - and dont forget that is legally enforceable, if you did exceed it you would be Prohibited from driving the combination. It does not take much to go over the rear axle limits. The speed restriction you refer to in the handbook is obviously a Volvo imposed one and has no legal standing. Hope this helps.
Dave

[outnumbered]

Originally Posted by DaveM241

Mike;
You are quite correct in that the van you are proposing to buy is very close to the kerbside weight of your towcar - in fact as far as a calculator goes you are at 100%. The 85% kerside weight is not actually law but an advice over the years on safe towing and stability which seems to have been universally adopted by the towing and legal communities. There used to be an argument amongst traffic officer ( 14 years experience) that although the 85% is not law, there are other laws that could be used. The plate you refer to under the bonnet is the plate that Traffic / Vosa officers use to determine your legal weights. If one subtracts the Max weight (2000kg) from the Train weight (3600kg) you are left with 1600kg. So in theory you are legally allowed to tow a van up to 1600kg. My experience tells me you would have a devils own job in keeping below the rear axle weight of 1010kg ( column 4 on your plate) - and dont forget that is legally enforceable, if you did exceed it you would be Prohibited from driving the combination. It does not take much to go over the rear axle limits. The speed restriction you refer to in the handbook is obviously a Volvo imposed one and has no legal standing. Hope this helps.
Dave

hi dave
thanks for your input. i have been caravaning for about 30 years now and with that combination i would not feel comfertable. so looks like its back to the drawing board. i dont want to change the car as the car is very good at the moment.
thanks
mike

[gary1638]

I may be missing something here, but is it not the case that the only extra weight on the rear axle is that imposed by the noseweight? If Volvo say that the car will tow 1600kg with a 75kg nose weight then axle weights should not be a problem. I would also suggest that if the recommended speed of 50 was exceeded it could be used to support a prosecution if things went wrong, and no doubt any insurance company may use it as an excuse not to pay out.

It is accepted that experienced caravanners can tow up to 100%, 85 is suggested for the less so.

FWIW

Gary

[DaveM241]

Gary;
Got to agree with your comments on the 50mph and insurance companies copping out, and in theory one would think that only putting the 75kg nose weight on the tow hitch would not put a car overweight on the rear axle. I speak from my experiences both as a vanner of some 25+ years and 14 years traffic police. I put my old 740 across a weighbridge one day in a state I thought well loaded with 65kg noseweight. Loaded for a 2 week hols on south coast. The only weight I over was the rear axle. Knowing the van was underweight and the train weight was well below plated max I moved stuff around the car and van. I could not get it below the max axle weight, although in those days you were allowed a 5% leeway before any one prosecuted. The closest I could get was 3% overwight which was good enough for me. I still have no idea how i could possibly get it any lower without totally emptying the van and car boot.
Dave

[gary1638]

Dave,
Interesting comments about the problems you had with the rear axle weight. I have been a caravanner for about 5 years now, and have got in the habit of only putting very light stuff in the boot. For the last couple of years I have used a roof box where I stored the awning and with the noseweight under 75kg the car was pretty level. This was with my 850 T5 saloon. I have now replaced it with a V70 D5 and have yet to tow with it. I won't be using the roofbox this time round, I'll only be using a scenic porch awning that will be in the van. Other than stability, I tried to even out the weight to improve on the 17 - 18 mpg the 850 achieved! Hopefully the V70 will be somewhat better.

I must confess that I have been a Traffic Officer as well. I say have been as I have now recently retired after the magic 30 years, most of which was on Traffic, now called Roads Policing!

Gary

[outnumbered]

hi all
finnally got round to putting the car on a weigbridge and the figures are with a full tank of diesel was 1640 kg,so if i wanted to go for the bailey pagent burgundy i am well within the limits. intresting that all the kerbweight sites quote a lesser figure.
mike