D24TIC Poor Cold Starting

[DLM48]

MY 945 24tic is having a few problems cold starting.............starts in about 20/30 seconds after some cranking - usually two goes on the key. The problems seems to be that the glow plugs are not activating at least the light on the dash is not coming on.

So are the glow plugs activated on every cold start? Are they temperature dependent i.e. are they only activated if the air temp is below xx deg? OR what?

cold start device is working fine as i have a VERY fast idle until it warms up - but the the idle is very fast normally i suspect the fuel mixture has been played with for extra performance.

thanks in anticipation

[craig8661]

the cold start can stick hence fast idel when runing just try nudging it with your hand and if it drops just look at the meck may be dry as for cold start look in the pipes for air if thats ruled out look for your heater relay im not sure where its located will look in mine soon if your heaters are working right you should hear a audible click from under the bonet after about 20 secs or other test you can do is vault meter on the plugs and earthed to battery and get some one to turn the ign on if you get 12 volts the electronics are fine then suspect the glow plugs i have 2 down on my engine and both behind the pump

[craig8661]

found the heater controle module thats just abouve the battery see photo

cheak this lever on your pump

[jor]

As per Craig's post the usual culprit is the glow plug. I changed mine a year ago buying the cheapest type (non branded) and guess what - they have just needed replacing again. TFB suggests checking the resistance between the connector part and earth, having removed the copper strip that connects them. I could not get consistent values (above 4ohm is bad) and wasn't certain I was doing it right, so I took out the 4 easily accessible ones and connected them to a battery, one at a time. Working ones definitely will light so watch out for the carpet. None of them did so they have been replaced with 4 Bosch ones. I'm sure the other 2 are also kaput, but it starts well enough so will do the others 'sometime'.
The engine will start on compression alone when the temp is somewhere around 35C.
I know engines will start on 3 functional plugs - as the first time I did mine I forgot to connect the copper strip to the inner 3 plugs, so if you find that the ones you test are working then the trouble lies elsewhere. The fact that the light is not coming on is a bit suspicious of an electrical rather than a plug problem. There is a diagram of the glow plug circuit on Ross Winberg's volvoturbodiesel.blogspot.com, however I can report that I know nothing about electricity so to me it's meaningless. However if the plugs work and you can get hold of a working relay and the thing still won't start then by exclusion it's got to be the switch that's faulty. The one part of the relay that's easy to look at is the fuse visible at the bottom after you undo two nuts and the connectors.
My guess is that the switch is bust.


john

[DLM48]

Originally Posted by jor

As per Craig's post the usual culprit is the glow plug. I changed mine a year ago buying the cheapest type (non branded) and guess what - they have just needed replacing again. TFB suggests checking the resistance between the connector part and earth, having removed the copper strip that connects them. I could not get consistent values (above 4ohm is bad) and wasn't certain I was doing it right, so I took out the 4 easily accessible ones and connected them to a battery, one at a time. Working ones definitely will light so watch out for the carpet. None of them did so they have been replaced with 4 Bosch ones. I'm sure the other 2 are also kaput, but it starts well enough so will do the others 'sometime'.
The engine will start on compression alone when the temp is somewhere around 35C.
I know engines will start on 3 functional plugs - as the first time I did mine I forgot to connect the copper strip to the inner 3 plugs, so if you find that the ones you test are working then the trouble lies elsewhere. The fact that the light is not coming on is a bit suspicious of an electrical rather than a plug problem. There is a diagram of the glow plug circuit on Ross Winberg's volvoturbodiesel.blogspot.com, however I can report that I know nothing about electricity so to me it's meaningless. However if the plugs work and you can get hold of a working relay and the thing still won't start then by exclusion it's got to be the switch that's faulty. The one part of the relay that's easy to look at is the fuse visible at the bottom after you undo two nuts and the connectors.
My guess is that the switch is bust.


john

thanks i thought that it cant be a plug issue as i would expect the light to still come one even were the plugs duff
thanks

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2...5/1600/g11.jpg

RELAY 130 is clicking

BUT no 12V at glow plug buss rail

so it would seem that i have a problem with the relay or one of the two sensors the temp sensor (199) or the fuel valve one (195) on the injector pump

fuses 8,9&10 are OK

need to double check the glow plug bulb is good - it is

the cold start lever on the pump moves a little 1/4"/3/8" when you pull forward on the top slot where the ball that contact the throttle lever is

there is a micro switch on the pump at the back of the throttle lever but the actuator is no longer there - is this the fuel valve sensor?

Fed the glow plug buss rail with 12V and cars starts fine so this IS a glow plug actuation issue.

[tfb]

The glow plug funtion is activated by a coolant temp sensor that's hidden on the engine block around the back of the IP.
The manual suggests the following glow plug times for coolant temp
9 seconds for -20C
6 seconds for 0C
4 seconds for 20c
3.5 secionds for 40C
0 seconds for 50C

The dash light is controlled by the Glow plug relay, but it doesn't exactly mirror what the glow plugs are doing. The glow plugs can still be heating when the dash light is off, but if the light is on then the glow plugs are on.
I would suggest that you use a multimeter to measure the voltage to the plugs to confirm the function of the relay (but it does sound like it is working to a degree).

From your description I would guess that one or more plugs have failed. No 5 and 6 are a bugger to get to withour removing the injectors or pump. I would try removing and testing the resistance of No1 to 4 and replacing if required. If this makes starting tolerable then leave No5 and 6 untill you have a good amount of free time and something to go and kick to take out your frustrations!

Regards
TFB

[craig8661]

allso to add what you can do is take the live feed of to the plugs tape it up and turn ignition on and put a live from the battery to the rail see if that improves the starting up on it

[DLM48]

Originally Posted by jor

As per Craig's post the usual culprit is the glow plug. I changed mine a year ago buying the cheapest type (non branded) and guess what - they have just needed replacing again. TFB suggests checking the resistance between the connector part and earth, having removed the copper strip that connects them. I could not get consistent values (above 4ohm is bad) and wasn't certain I was doing it right, so I took out the 4 easily accessible ones and connected them to a battery, one at a time. Working ones definitely will light so watch out for the carpet. None of them did so they have been replaced with 4 Bosch ones. I'm sure the other 2 are also kaput, but it starts well enough so will do the others 'sometime'.
The engine will start on compression alone when the temp is somewhere around 35C.
I know engines will start on 3 functional plugs - as the first time I did mine I forgot to connect the copper strip to the inner 3 plugs, so if you find that the ones you test are working then the trouble lies elsewhere. The fact that the light is not coming on is a bit suspicious of an electrical rather than a plug problem. There is a diagram of the glow plug circuit on Ross Winberg's volvoturbodiesel.blogspot.com, however I can report that I know nothing about electricity so to me it's meaningless. However if the plugs work and you can get hold of a working relay and the thing still won't start then by exclusion it's got to be the switch that's faulty. The one part of the relay that's easy to look at is the fuse visible at the bottom after you undo two nuts and the connectors.
My guess is that the switch is bust.


john

when i replace mine i will use the hotter Bosch ones that elsberg use i think the Part number is on the VEG OIL thread

[DLM48]

Originally Posted by craig8661

allso to add what you can do is take the live feed of to the plugs tape it up and turn ignition on and put a live from the battery to the rail see if that improves the starting up on it

did that read my updates

[craig8661]

lol was scouting and missed it the mirco switch was a throtle possition sencor i was told as the new pump didnt have one fitted so had to have it transferd over obvisly you need to see if the relay itself is getting power to it on a main feed
allso i dont kno but i have a fourtrak and if the rezistance changes too much on the heater plugs the heater relay dosnt work but not sure if this applys to volvo if you can get to fault you could allways throw a little switch and a austin starter relay in and have a live feed of the batter to relay then the heater rail