Seriously?

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Moomoo

Agreed Alan , I recently bought a 30s Siemens 16mm camera with a massive fps speed, great thing, £5.

I remember having a Russian SLR back in the 80s Andrew (it would have been a Zenith, probably a B), with a nice lens and a separate light meter. Back in the day wasn't a bad camera, although the lack of through lens metering was getting a bit old fashioned. I can't remember what I did with it, but I thought I'd just check to see if that beautifully engineered machine would have been worth much if I still had it today. A quick search on eBay shows that one can buy a 1970's Zenith B in working order for... £12.50.

Perhaps I'll get one and turn it into a lamp... :-)

Alan

[Moomoo]

Originally Posted by Othen

As an electrician (retired) I'd love to agree, but what else would one do with an AVO meter - the instrument would have no commercial use whatsoever?

I sometimes wonder how many RR Merlin engines were scrapped for the price of the aluminium when Spitfires, Hurricanes and Lancasters were suddenly overtaken by events in about 1950, or beautiful steam locomotives and static engines were broken for scrap when the diesel and electric age arrived. We can't keep everything - however wonderful the engineering was when it came out of the factory.

Sometimes one has to accept that stuff from the past just doesn't work well enough any more. You chaps may recall the radiogram I took out of the Barge:



... it was huge, heavy, had only two channels and the sound quality was rubbish. I little bit of me wanted to keep it, but common sense prevailed. The £15 retro-styled modern receiver that replaced it weighed perhaps 10% as much and was tiny in comparison:



... it has 4 channels and the sound quality is really good.

Perhaps one day I'll get the Volvo MDL radio/cassette player made into a lamp or a Bluetooth speaker - but there again perhaps I won't :-).

Alan

You’re right of course, a world full of obsolete stuff is a museum, nice to visit not live in!

Word has it that many Merlin engines were buried near me at the old Ordnance Depot at Hilton. The house building frenzy in that area might turn summat up!🤔

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

As an electrician (retired) I'd love to agree, but what else would one do with an AVO meter - the instrument would have no commercial use whatsoever?

Alan

https://www.stanelcorftechnologies.com/about-us/

They do have some use these days Alan, the plastic welders made by this company, certainly of 25-55 years ago to my certain knowledge, used valves as the main component to create the 27MHz (usually, some machines used different frequencies) at 30kW on average. Setting up the bias current on the grid necessitated the use of an analogue meter as the RF interfered with digital meters. For them, the good ol' AVO8 or similar was as necessary to doing the job as air is for us to breathe - perhaps a slight exaggeration on that analogy but you get the idea!

Despite the fact the valves are no longer huge glass envelopes the size of rugby balls, they still operate on the same theory and still need similar setting up, as would valve amplifiers, radios etc so an audiophile who favoured valves and did their owne repairs/builds on equipment would also likely need an AVO8 or similar.

Admittedly that makes it a niche market, but a market nonetheless. Also turning something relatively rare when new (they were something like £400 way back when) and expensive into a £50 lamp or BT speaker instead of restoring it and putting it in a museum of historical electrical engineering artefacts is something of a sacrilege IMHO.

That said, i do see where you're coming from, a cheaper multimeter with less functionality and/or accuracy and build quality would be a good candidate - on the same program as metnioned above they once took an old yachting radio and fitted a normal radio/BT reciever, replaced the two long valves either side of the dial with filament bulbs that gave a similar glow to what the valve heaters would have done and updated it that way. That started as an audio device, it was updated to an audio device but with other things to give it a reminiscent look of its origins.

I think this is as an emotive subject as paying or not paying £10k for an immaculate 240GLE as linked to further up so these are simply my views.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

https://www.stanelcorftechnologies.com/about-us/

They do have some use these days Alan, the plastic welders made by this company, certainly of 25-55 years ago to my certain knowledge, used valves as the main component to create the 27MHz (usually, some machines used different frequencies) at 30kW on average. Setting up the bias current on the grid necessitated the use of an analogue meter as the RF interfered with digital meters. For them, the good ol' AVO8 or similar was as necessary to doing the job as air is for us to breathe - perhaps a slight exaggeration on that analogy but you get the idea!

Despite the fact the valves are no longer huge glass envelopes the size of rugby balls, they still operate on the same theory and still need similar setting up, as would valve amplifiers, radios etc so an audiophile who favoured valves and did their owne repairs/builds on equipment would also likely need an AVO8 or similar.

Admittedly that makes it a niche market, but a market nonetheless. Also turning something relatively rare when new (they were something like £400 way back when) and expensive into a £50 lamp or BT speaker instead of restoring it and putting it in a museum of historical electrical engineering artefacts is something of a sacrilege IMHO.

That said, i do see where you're coming from, a cheaper multimeter with less functionality and/or accuracy and build quality would be a good candidate - on the same program as metnioned above they once took an old yachting radio and fitted a normal radio/BT reciever, replaced the two long valves either side of the dial with filament bulbs that gave a similar glow to what the valve heaters would have done and updated it that way. That started as an audio device, it was updated to an audio device but with other things to give it a reminiscent look of its origins.

I think this is as an emotive subject as paying or not paying £10k for an immaculate 240GLE as linked to further up so these are simply my views.

I'd love to agree with you about the AVO Dave, I remember them fondly from school. They weren't all that rare though, probably until the 80s many electricians would have had one. However - a quick search on eBay shows me there is no shortage of them and they are cheap. A tenner buys just the instrument - £30 the complete kit with a nice leather case.

I may buy myself one - just for posterity.

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I'd love to agree with you about the AVO Dave, I remember them fondly from school. They weren't all that rare though, probably until the 80s many electricians would have had one. However - a quick search on eBay shows me there is no shortage of them and they are cheap. A tenner buys just the instrument - £30 the complete kit with a nice leather case.

I may buy myself one - just for posterity.

Alan

That's interesting Alan, i may do the same as you and buy one for posterity. I must admit, when i started my apprenticeship in 1984, we were told then the AVO8 was £400's worth of "old hat" and we'd be using digital meters. However we were trained to use the AVO8 as well so we'd know how to use both. It wasn't until about 10 years later i saw another, being used to tune the valve on an RF welder. I did query the use of it and that was when it was explained that the RF would upset the digitals.

I do have an AVO digital automotive multimeter that was about 10-12 years old when i bought it in the early-mid 90s, the original bill of sale said £378 if memory serves with another £78 for the leather case it resides in. Now you can buy a Draper (or similar) on that does more including transistor test function with hFe and capacitance as well for tuppence ha'penny and a brass farthing or £20 in new money.
I also have an RS "IsoTech" branded Fluke DMM that i use for most things plus a few other "intersting/useful" bits of test kit, most of which i would describe as budget end of the market but for the amount of use they are likely to get, good enough.

As you rightly said about your surveying stuff, when instruments are superceded in their professional capacity, they are soon left by the wayside and i think it's just us nostalgic people that see the value in saving them for posterity.

Maybe that's why we all like old Volvos...........

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

That's interesting Alan, i may do the same as you and buy one for posterity. I must admit, when i started my apprenticeship in 1984, we were told then the AVO8 was £400's worth of "old hat" and we'd be using digital meters. However we were trained to use the AVO8 as well so we'd know how to use both. It wasn't until about 10 years later i saw another, being used to tune the valve on an RF welder. I did query the use of it and that was when it was explained that the RF would upset the digitals.

I do have an AVO digital automotive multimeter that was about 10-12 years old when i bought it in the early-mid 90s, the original bill of sale said £378 if memory serves with another £78 for the leather case it resides in. Now you can buy a Draper (or similar) on that does more including transistor test function with hFe and capacitance as well for tuppence ha'penny and a brass farthing or £20 in new money.
I also have an RS "IsoTech" branded Fluke DMM that i use for most things plus a few other "intersting/useful" bits of test kit, most of which i would describe as budget end of the market but for the amount of use they are likely to get, good enough.

As you rightly said about your surveying stuff, when instruments are superceded in their professional capacity, they are soon left by the wayside and i think it's just us nostalgic people that see the value in saving them for posterity.

Maybe that's why we all like old Volvos...........

Exactly Dave,

I just showed Dan an eBay ad for one of the AVOs and explained what it did; I added I might buy one, to which he replied 'what for, you would never use it'. He is right of course, I still have my Metrel multi-function tester for precise work as well as a number of multi-meters - an AVO would be just for show and we've run out of room (in a pretty big house) already. I may still buy one and hide it away until I can find somewhere to put it :-).

These were expensive instruments in the 1970s, but before solid state devices there was no real alternative for electricians, laboratories, university and school physics departments and so on. Just like everything else though, they became obsolete almost overnight; 30 years one could pick up an AVO for free from any electrician tired of it taking up space in his van. There will still be lots of them sitting in people's lofts, garages and sheds that will appear on eBay from time to time and the prices will stay low; I'll probably find one fairly locally for a tenner or so sometime in the next couple of years.

Nostalgia is certainly a factor, and that is the reason I have old Volvos. It only goes so far though - can you imagine using a CRT television or computer monitor through choice?

:-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Exactly Dave,

I just showed Dan an eBay ad for one of the AVOs and explained what it did; I added I might buy one, to which he replied 'what for, you would never use it'. He is right of course, I still have my Metrel multi-function tester for precise work as well as a number of multi-meters - an AVO would be just for show and we've run out of room (in a pretty big house) already. I may still buy one and hide it away until I can find somewhere to put it :-).

These were expensive instruments in the 1970s, but before solid state devices there was no real alternative for electricians, laboratories, university and school physics departments and so on. Just like everything else though, they became obsolete almost overnight; 30 years one could pick up an AVO for free from any electrician tired of it taking up space in his van. There will still be lots of them sitting in people's lofts, garages and sheds that will appear on eBay from time to time and the prices will stay low; I'll probably find one fairly locally for a tenner or so sometime in the next couple of years.

Nostalgia is certainly a factor, and that is the reason I have old Volvos. It only goes so far though - can you imagine using a CRT television or computer monitor through choice?

:-)

That's probably why i don't already have an AVO8 myself Alan, no room and wouldn't use it.
Last CRT device i had was in fact a 32" widescreen TV aka "floorboard tester" as it was 130kg, mostly the tube itself although it had a humungous sound system built in with 7 speakers!
That went about 10 years ago now when i bought a 42" plasma tv and regained 9 sq ft of my lounge back!
Even my oscilloscope is a TFT screen, little hand-held job although i would like a "proper" scope as i think they give better definition of waveforms etc. Trouble is, they not only weigh a ton by comparison but take up a huge amount of space - my hand-held scope fits nicely in a small cardboard box about 4x5x1 inches in a toolbox bought to store my test kit.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Othen

We have been discussing whey some motor cars sell well, and others don't. Here is a good example of how not to advertise an older car:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265934094994

... just 5 pretty poor photos and a one-line description.

This is a 177,000 mile, 33 year old nondescript motor car. It is a long way from being an historic vehicle and there isn't much classic about it. The seller is looking for £4,000 - there is a greater chance of me becoming an archbishop than it achieving that price.

:-)

This seller seems to have suddenly become more sensible - the £4,000 price tag has disappeared and bidding has got to 2 grand (I'm pleased I won't have to become an archbishop).

:-)

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Othen

This auction seems to be flying Andrew and Lucien, this morn it is up to £2,600 with 5 days still to go.

I'm struggling to see why it is so attractive: a non-historic, base model with no MoT that has been laid up for 20 years and has no history or provenance to speak of. The only factor I can think of is the shine that has been machine polished in by the dealer, I recall a correspondent to these pages (from France I think) some time ago whom was of the opinion a 'BS shine' (as he called it) could make his barn find worth £15,000; perhaps he was right?

This could be shill bidding of course - if it is we'll see it again (and again). I see the reserve has been met (perhaps it was £2,500?); I suppose there is a scenario whereby the dealer has used a bit of shill bidding to get above a reserve price he would be happy with - and now needs just one genuine bid to complete the sale. Perhaps I'm being uncharitable in considering that?

I'm still at a loss to understand what is going on here.

It will be interesting to see where this one ends up, I suppose it may go much higher because eBay tells me there are 233 folk watching this auction. When the time comes to sell the Barge (by then an historic vehicle, GLE specification, MoT history and quite good provenance) I'll invest in a machine polisher :-).

Alan

Well, I was completely wrong about this one:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255774639774

... I thought it would take a fair wind to get it to 2 grand, then that £3,000 would be an excellent price - but it has confounded me and is already at £3,100 with half a day of the auction to go and 374 folk watching.

I still have no idea what makes it so attractive: a non-historic cooking model with no MoT and in need of some work. Perhaps I'm getting too old to understand.

:-)

[loki_the_glt]

Originally Posted by Othen

I remember having a Russian SLR back in the 80s Andrew (it would have been a Zenith, probably a B), with a nice lens and a separate light meter. Back in the day wasn't a bad camera, although the lack of through lens metering was getting a bit old fashioned. I can't remember what I did with it, but I thought I'd just check to see if that beautifully engineered machine would have been worth much if I still had it today. A quick search on eBay shows that one can buy a 1970's Zenith B in working order for... £12.50.

Perhaps I'll get one and turn it into a lamp... :-)

Alan

The Zenit B had no light meter; the later E had a selenium meter housed above the lens and the EM boasted TTL-metering. They were robust though, as a friend dropped his some 5' onto a concrete floor in the terminal at Glasgow Airport without damaging either body or lens. I wouldn't like to do that with a modern DSLR, or even with the Praktica LTL3 I owned at the time.