Making the transition from 245 to an Amazon? any advice?

[jimbolya]

Hi there, I currently own a 1979 245, and so far, has been fantastic! but there's something inside yearning for something with a little more character but also "pinache"! and i believe that an amazon might be the answer. I was looking at a Rover P5 or P6 but my experience with the 245 makes me think "stick with Volvo" and to be honest, the amazon looks just as good as the P5.

However, on to the point of my post, I was wondering if anyone else has made the same journey and regretted it or made it and haven't looked back? and what are the Pro's and con's?

I realise that because its an older car, i will have to treat it a little more carefully, but is there anything i should specifically be aware of, brakes? handling? economy? I really need to use the car daily for work and the like, is this a bad idea or will an amazon cope?

and of course, the model of choice? my budget is limited but there seem to be a few coming up for around the grand mark, should i steer clear or should they be ok? as i said i've currently got an estate, but am quite willing to look at saloons 2 or 4 door.

Any advice or just a reply would be very welcome, thanks.

Jimbo

[amazondean]

Hi jimbo. Before I got into amazons I was looking for a classic as an everyday car. I have owned various classics over the years and maintained them myself so I had a reasonable knowledge of what to look for. But nothing seemed to tick all the right boxes as it will be needed as our main car and do away with our modern car. I have a wife and two kids to consider as well. Then I noticed the amazon and suddenly I realised that it ticked every box possible for a classic car as an everyday car. ie Reliable, capable of very long journey's, comfortable, warm in winter. (the heater is the best i've ever had in a classic) almost unrivelled parts availability including second hand, incredibly simple to maintain, very few bodywork issues, as safe to drive as the next best classic (rear seat belt mountings are already there.) and finaly one other important factor that beats any other classic that fits the above criterea. They are more economical than most other classics like for like. I have three amazons on the road including two estates and on a good run I get between 32 and 36 to the gallon every time.
Things to look out for; Stay clear of newly painted cars, people are drawn to shiny paint. Try to buy a car that was restored about five years ago at least. Because of your budget you might get a good car well maintained with the odd blemish but you should be able to see any problems. Always look underneath and have a good look. A good car will show little sign of repair and there are plenty like that. Check the sills at the back near the rear weels, there should be a seem running the full length of the sill underneath. If its there on both sides and looks to be original there should be little to worry about anywere else underneath as a guide, but lift the front mats up and check the footwells. Most amazons leak water either through the windscreen seal or the side footwell walls there is usualy some welding here. Check the inner wings, use a torch to look under the front wings at the box section were the front wings are bolted to. Look closely at the wings above the headlights for signs of filler probably the most comman rot spot. Look in the boot at were the wheel arch meets the boot floor and in the corners were the lights are. The doors will rot out badley at the bottom as well so check the bottom of all the doors from underneeth. if these are good the car is looking good.
People say the last cars 1970 are the best as they have duel circuit brakes, headrests, 2 litre engines, rear seat belts fitted, a better brake servo, but I think the better cars are 1966 to 1967 as there seems to be plenty of good original examples and easier to maintain brakes. The four door fairs better as the two door tends to rot out the sills behind the doors.
To sum up I don't think there is a classic out there to match an amazon for daily use if you find a good one as I have owned a few different classics and on the hole I enjoy most classics. A 1966 four door single carb engine with overdrive is a good option but you will be lucky to find a decent one for a grand. You will end up like the metal detector, finding ten thousand bits of junk before you find a piece of gold. Good luck; I will add a picture of one of my estates when I can get the server to work.

Dean

[jimbolya]

wow, first of all, thankyou for taking the time out to write such an in-depth reply. I was just expecting one or two liners, but thats just brilliant. Its great to know that you are running them as an everyday, like i said, i pretty much need a car everyday for work and the like. I'm glad you said that it ticked all the boxes, the fact that it looks fantastic with all that great chrome aswell is just an excellent bonus! thats a good checklist, thankyou, i don't particularly want to rush into buying my next car as i have previous ones, so making sure i look for all the signs will be real useful. obviously because of the budget i may have to sacrifice on some issues.
I like the idea of a 66-67 amazon, when you say easier to manage brakes? how so? did they come with a brake servo? as stopping is obviously just as important as going.

LOL, i think you are right about the metal detector, but hey! if thats what it takes!

Pictures would be greatly appreciated! i love the drop tailgate on the estate, looks cool, and clearly good for trips to B&Q ;)

thanks again for your reply,


Jimbo

[amazondean]

The brakes on pre 1969 are single circuit which means half as many brake pipes and hoses to corode. The downside is that if a pipe fails you have no brakes so keeping a good handbrake is assential on the earlier models but if you make sure the brakes are in good order and keep an eye on the fluid leval I think the single circuit brakes are a better bet just on the basis of less there less to go wrong and maintain. (cheaper too). Some have servo's and some don't. To be honest I don't have a servo on any of my cars because if they go wrong which the pre twin circuite servos often do, you will either break down because the diaphram splits and sucks air from your manifald or you lose your brakes again because the fluid has leaked. I believe servos can be as dangerous as they are safe.

I have a saying. Electric nothing and keep it simple.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/amazondean/15.jpg

[222s]

I fully agree with Dean's advice and comments. Amazons make great everyday classic cars - my estate was bought 11 1/2 years ago purely to use as a workhorse. It rarely gets washed (the paint is so faded & has been polished through to the primer in places, that there's no point), but has always been mechanically looked after. As it's 38, the body is a bit ratty now (mainly door bottoms & rear arches) but noting structural - that has always been dealt with properly.

However, a few additional areas to check for rust:
(apologies for any repetition of Dean's advice - I've copied some of this from a previous post of mine. Where there is a link, click on the pic again for a higher resolution image)

1) Roof gutters, along the whole length - see the gutter above the rear door in these pics of my spares car (which has since been cubed, otherwise I'd take some close-ups). The rust hole goes through all the layers of metal, and I could touch the top of the passenger door through it. Using a sharp screwdriver, I found that it had also weakened the metal along the gutter for several feet either side of the hole. If it's rusty here, walk away!
http://x-files.serveftp.com/paulhark...on&id=IMGP0402
http://x-files.serveftp.com/paulhark...on&id=IMGP0401

2) Top half of tailgate - these are notorious for rotting out from the inside. If you see any bubbling, especially up around the hinges, it's scrap, although it may still be useable for the short term. Also check the rear edge of the roof (especially where the seal attaches) and around the hinges. Rust-free upper tailgates are like the proverbial hens teeth, so when I get round to it, I shall be making a fibreglass replacement for my car, to solve this once and for all.

3) The areas just below the rear side windows (inside the boot) on estates. Bulging window rubbers / seals means that the metal lip is rusting, due to a combination of water leaks and condensation.

4) Front bulkhead, especially the screen surround and at the base of the screen pillars. Also check from inside the car, under the dash. If rusted, I'd walk away, and try and find a better car. (see just below and to the left of the windscreen: http://x-files.serveftp.com/paulhark...on&id=IMGP0400)

5) The sills will usually be ok (galvanized), as will the floor, unless there have been waterleaks - my spares car had perfect sills, and the floors were only damaged where it had been moved with a forklift, but it was badly rusted elsewhere.

6) Bumper can rust through from behind, and brand new ones aren't cheap - IIRC, about £1000 for both.

7) Front panels can rot out, but some cars were fitted with galvanised ones.

8) Front inner wing tops (repair section available). Apparently also an MOT fail point.

9) Rear arches (repair section available). There should be a seam, as visible If not. it's been filled / badly repaired already. This is shown clearly in on eof the roof gutter pics.

9) Door bottoms - rust isn't usually visible from outside the car when the door is closed, so check carefully.

10) The padded dash top - splits, and unavailable new in right hand drive. (Most of the rest of the interior trim is available from Holland).

Also, bear in mind that the youngest Amazons are now 35 years old, and although extremely rust resistant compared to other cars of the same age (and in some cases, much younger), this means that many are still largely unrestored examples that are approaching the stage when significant body restoration is required.

Best to contact a specialist regarding specific parts availability, but it's generally good news, especially for mechanicals:
Brookhouse Volvo Parts: http://www.classicvolvoparts.co.uk/
Amazon Cars: http://www.amazoncars.co.uk/
South Service (Tony Barrett): http://www.amazon.uk.com/

However, here are many good points:

If it has twin carbs and overdrive, it will make a great motorway car, even more so with a B20 - I've seen an indicated 115 (on an Autobahn, not in the UK), which is about 5750 rpm. I would highly recommend getting a car with overdrive (I use it all the time, even in London traffic), as otherwise it's very noisy and tiring on the motorways.

The boot is huge (perfect for trips to Ikea....), and the seats are very comfortable, even over long distances - I drove mine to Germany last year. The handling and roadholding is very good for its age, and the brakes are very good (assuming it has disc brakes - the earl ones had front drums). The later ones had servoes, but mine is (still) missing, but they are still very powerful - I prefer it without a servo as none of my cars have had one.

Despite the advice in Retro Cars magazine's Amazon tuning article, I wouldn't recommend swapping the steering wheel for a smaller one - it isn't power assisted, and you'll really appreciate the big wheel when parking in a tight space - due to the tight turning circle, I find that it will fit into spaces only two foot longer than the car.

The heater is best described as volcanic - even on a short journey, it can be hot enough to make my eyes water! One issue that confuses many is that the 1st fan setting (one click out) is the faster one, with the second (2 clicks out) is slow.

Hope this helps - if you have any more questions, feel free to ask!

Paul

http://x-files.serveftp.com/paulhark...ture.sized.jpg
1967 Amazon 122S B20 o/d Estate, 1961 A-H Sprite Mk2 948cc

[amazondean]

Paul is spot on with the body issues. My upper tailgate had rotted out completely at the bottom edge on my white estate being able to put my hand through it. But the real bonus when I bought my car five years ago was that it was in completely original condition other than new inner wings had been welded on. But I was amazed how good the car was underneath and since then I have owned about seven other amazons all requiring restoration but what swung it to buy them was the underneath on all the cars I bought and other amazons I have seen is how good they are in this area. The sills are more than often original and untouched which is unheard of with british cars of a similar era. Although I have never seen an amazon with rust as bad as the one paul has shown in the middle of the gutter. But they can rot badley like Paul says at the back were the rubber suround is and below the bottom tailgate.

On a different note I saw a month ago an amazon estate was being auctioned down in sandy were they have classic car auctions that are insurance write offs. I went down with my farther inlaw as we are both interested in classics. I was expecting the car to be more work than I can handle. But armed with my touch I gave it a full inspection and found that it had had a very expensive restoration pria to the accident and once again underneath was in untouched original condition. The engine bay under the dust and muck was nealy as good as the outside. The hole front cross member assembly had been stripped re bushed and all sprayed before assembly including new callipers. There was no sign of rot or dodgy filler any were, although the repairs to the bottom of the doors was not perfect, the rest of the car was near perfect. including new wings. except the accident damage which all that was wrong was the near side front wing was crumpeled, the front door had a very slight scrape. The back door was quite badley dinted and the panel behind the rear door was also slightley dinted. And it stated that there was no brakes. I couldn't let this chance go so I went up to (and slightley above) my top price and bought it for £1750 with no commision to pay. (Thank you farther inlaw). I trailered it away and got in touch with the previous owner who lived near the top of scotland and he told me that a volvo dealer got the car in 1993 as part exchange and they restored the car over a few years and had it in there showroom on desplay until 2003 when the dealership finished and was sold to the previous owner. He had it a year and then one evening went round a corner in the wet and found he had no brakes and hit and slid down a wall causing the said damage.

Since I have had the car I have found out why there was no brakes. Odley there was no hand brake either. I thought it would be the usual either the servo or the master cylinder dumping the fluid. But on close inspection they were as new. When I tried to get the rear drums off it wrecked my puller which has always worked fine. I started to think this might be where the problem lied. I used another bigger puller and they finaly came off revealing brake dust covered in fluid. The shoes were also wet with fluid. The adjusters were seized as well. It looked like the fluid had been leaking from both sides very slowly and eventualy the fluid leval in the master cylinder disapeared causing air to enter and no brakes. I stripped the cylinders and cleaned the bores to find they were in a terrible state. All is now well with new cylinders. There was no hand brake because someone had slackened it off indicating that someone has probabley tried to take the drums off before me and failed. The point is that it looks like the volvo dealer never touched the rear brakes because they were not seen by anyone. I don't believe the problem was due to it being stood in the showroom for so long because the car looks like it has been kept very dry and the pitting in the cylinders was that bad they could be the originals, and the drums was so tight they hadn't been off for a very long time. This small mistake could have cost someone there life and stresses the point that asspecialy single circuit brakes need regular inspection and if the master cylinder is loosing fluid. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

I have since repaired the damage only by nocking out the dints and filling. I even managed to straighten the wing and re-use it. It needs a new one realy but the wing was so good pre accident I didn't like to waist it. I will post some pictures when I get organised. So far I have spent less than £100 pounds and it's nearly ready for MOT.

This is a photo of our daily transport.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/amazondean/13.jpg
Regards...Dean.

[jimbolya]

Hey there to both of you. Thanks to you both, Dean and Paul you have given me a wealth of info to absorb so i can go and start looking for a suitable amazon. Thanks for those extra pointers Paul, I didn't realise galvanizing was around in the 1960's must have been a relatively new process. but definately a worthwhile one. Dean, thats an amazing story, snapped up a bit of a bargain!

Once again, can't thank you enough, I've even printed this thread off so i can keep reading it back.

Hopefully I'll be swapping over to this forum soon! probably not til after christmas, as i know the 245 will see me through the winter providing nothing drastic happens!

Thanks,
Jimbo

[222s]

Glad to be able to help :-)

http://x-files.serveftp.com/paulhark...ture.sized.jpg
1967 Amazon 122S B20 o/d Estate, 1961 A-H Sprite Mk2 948cc

[biggbn]

...everythin these guys said...go for it mate, ya wont look back. i bought a cheap amazon estate about 6 months ago, and have been using it 4 or 5 times a week ever since. the car came straight out of a nice dry garage, now lives outside, always starts, never lets me down, cruises happily at ninety @3800 rpm in o/d top, still tops the ton, can return @30 mpg if driven slightly slower!!..has a great heater and gets more looks than any car i'v owned...surely the most stylish, affordable tax free motor available for reasonable money. only my saab v4's and beetle could have come close, but neither of these was such a fast lane menace!!