ongoing stalling saga (quite long post)

Mar 24th, 2006, 20:56

HI again, still having problems with our car (volvo 240e 1993), its getting serious now. Just a recap on the prolem and what we have done to fix it...

Car stalls when slowing down to junctions, speed bumps, etc. Usually it takes a minute or two to restart, the last week it has taken up to 10 mins to restart. This morning when my Dad was on the way to work it refused to start for near on an hour. He was close to work so left it there. Went back at lunchtime and car started first time. On his way home from work the same happened again and he could not restart it after an hour, he has had to leave the car there overnight.

We have changed the following parts (be aware some may be irrelevent but they needed changing anyway, I include them for completeness) - ignition coil, air mass meter, rear exhaust, thermostat, spark plugs and lead set, distributor cap and fuel filter. We have also removed the throttle body and given it a good cleaning inside.
Car broke down with a flat battery a few days ago, had to call breakdown. The battery is a weak battery and is losing charge, it requires a charge every two days. This could be the problem. The recovery man the other day suggested that the problem may be a failing ignition module.

Tonight my Dad has brought the ignition module home and we are getting the following pin to pin readings on an ohm meter...

pins 3-4 = 2.1 ohms
pins 2-4 = 2.1 ohms
pins 1-4 = 4.6 ohms
pins 2-3 = 0 ohms
pins 2-1 = 2.5 ohms
pins 1-3 = 2.5 ohms

Are these normal?

We are getting to the end of our tether now and do not know where to turn next. Obviously we cannot continue to spend out on parts which may not need replacing.

octo0072000 · Mar 24th, 2006, 21:13

Hi you haven't done the 1 main problem check out the fuel pump relay all the symptoms sound like it ask mike brace on here or search under fuel pump relay but would change the battery as well gives loads of odd problems if cells shorted mine used to turn over and not start changed battery no more problems but go for fuel relay as known fault if you are good at soldering you should be able to resolder the joints and also solder the cables to connectors the crimped on ones to main harness

gordo · Mar 24th, 2006, 21:16

hi,i had this problem with my volvo 850,exactly the same as you describe.
the problem with mine was a faulty fuel pump relay fuse.
not so sure if your volvo has one as im not to mechanically minded ,but im sure someone on here will put you right,
i think mine cost around £30.00, problem solved as soon as i changed it.
the garage i took mine too said no way can it be that as they dont fail,but having looked on the forum alot of them fail so i changed it,no problems since.
good luck ,hope you get sorted.
gordo

Clifford Pope · Mar 24th, 2006, 21:17

Have you replaced the Crank Position Sensor on the top of the clutch bellhousing, at the back of the engine block? They famously start to fail with age, either just getting less sensitive, or the wiring insulation decays.
Also look at the ignition amplifier, a flat metal plate bolted on the inner wing just in front of the battery.
Both cause intermittant faults when they start to fail, and are sensitive to heat and weather.

octo0072000 · Mar 24th, 2006, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by octo0072000

Hi you haven't done the 1 main problem check out the fuel pump relay all the symptoms sound like it ask mike brace on here or search under fuel pump relay but would change the battery as well gives loads of odd problems if cells shorted mine used to turn over and not start changed battery no more problems but go for fuel relay as known fault if you are good at soldering you should be able to resolder the joints and also solder the cables to connectors the crimped on ones to main harness

Try this link tell you more

http://volvoadventures.com/howtodofuelpumprelay.html

Mar 24th, 2006, 23:20

Hi all, thanks for the replies. More things to consider. I checked the page for the pump relay so thats something we can check over the weekend. The priority at the moment is getting the car home so at least it can be looked at with tools we have here.
My Dad can use a soldering iron so it won't be a problem if he has to solder some connectors again.

Its all getting a bit too much, ideas from everywhere, people saying different things, spending money on different things. I will get him to try the things suggested. In the meantime does anyone know what the OHM readings should be for the ignition module?
Thanks

Clifford Pope · Mar 25th, 2006, 09:21

I know the problem - where to start mending money, which advice to follow.
But you can test, or eliminate, the fuel pump relay for nothing. Simply connect a wire between fuses 4 and 6, so that the fuel pumps run continuously. That by-passes the relay, and you can drive the car like that. Remember to disconnect as soon as you stop.
If that temporarily cures the problem, then concentrate on the relay. If it doesn't, well at least that is one item off the list.

Mar 25th, 2006, 11:44

Hi Clifford, no can do at the moment, the car is now in what seems to be a no start position. Just will not start at all so would not be able to test the pump relay?

Mar 25th, 2006, 11:54

OKay if we test the pump relay by connecting 4-6 would that enable the car to start?
Oh and where is the fuel pump relay fuses on the car? Is it easy to get to?

Peter D · Mar 25th, 2006, 12:37

Slow Down Here. As Cliff says link fuses 4 and 6 together in the passenger foot well LHS fuse panel. This will fire the pumps up and you should be able to here them. Now try and start the car. If it is still no go then the Relay is probably OK. If you can not smell any fuel at the exhaust I suspect the Crank Postion sensor at he rear of the head mounted on top of the Bell Housing. Replacement part about £19 and was upgraded to stop this happening. With a faulty sensor you get NO spark or Fuel Injector Pulse or rev counter. This fault is not reported by the ECU. The resistance of this sensor measured at the bulkhead connector is 190 ohms but even with the correct resistance the output on cranking can be too low and the engine will not fire up. The newer ones have a white band on the cable.

If when you have the fault and you could eventually re-start the engine, if it restarted cleanly as thou nothing had happened, i.e. it did not miss and pop and evenually burble into life, it just started cleanly then I would go for the sensor. A bit fiddley to change but necessary. From your decription it used to stall when you slowed right down i.e. at tick over, did it ever stall at higher rpm's Regards Peter

Mar 24th, 2006, 20:56	#1
beckyh Guest Location:	ongoing stalling saga (quite long post) HI again, still having problems with our car (volvo 240e 1993), its getting serious now. Just a recap on the prolem and what we have done to fix it... Car stalls when slowing down to junctions, speed bumps, etc. Usually it takes a minute or two to restart, the last week it has taken up to 10 mins to restart. This morning when my Dad was on the way to work it refused to start for near on an hour. He was close to work so left it there. Went back at lunchtime and car started first time. On his way home from work the same happened again and he could not restart it after an hour, he has had to leave the car there overnight. We have changed the following parts (be aware some may be irrelevent but they needed changing anyway, I include them for completeness) - ignition coil, air mass meter, rear exhaust, thermostat, spark plugs and lead set, distributor cap and fuel filter. We have also removed the throttle body and given it a good cleaning inside. Car broke down with a flat battery a few days ago, had to call breakdown. The battery is a weak battery and is losing charge, it requires a charge every two days. This could be the problem. The recovery man the other day suggested that the problem may be a failing ignition module. Tonight my Dad has brought the ignition module home and we are getting the following pin to pin readings on an ohm meter... pins 3-4 = 2.1 ohms pins 2-4 = 2.1 ohms pins 1-4 = 4.6 ohms pins 2-3 = 0 ohms pins 2-1 = 2.5 ohms pins 1-3 = 2.5 ohms Are these normal? We are getting to the end of our tether now and do not know where to turn next. Obviously we cannot continue to spend out on parts which may not need replacing.

Mar 24th, 2006, 21:13	#2
octo0072000 Member Last Online: Feb 21st, 2018 21:38 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Doncaster	Re stalling Hi you haven't done the 1 main problem check out the fuel pump relay all the symptoms sound like it ask mike brace on here or search under fuel pump relay but would change the battery as well gives loads of odd problems if cells shorted mine used to turn over and not start changed battery no more problems but go for fuel relay as known fault if you are good at soldering you should be able to resolder the joints and also solder the cables to connectors the crimped on ones to main harness

Mar 24th, 2006, 21:16	#3
gordo Member Last Online: Aug 31st, 2011 22:09 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: oxfordshire	ongoing hi,i had this problem with my volvo 850,exactly the same as you describe. the problem with mine was a faulty fuel pump relay fuse. not so sure if your volvo has one as im not to mechanically minded ,but im sure someone on here will put you right, i think mine cost around £30.00, problem solved as soon as i changed it. the garage i took mine too said no way can it be that as they dont fail,but having looked on the forum alot of them fail so i changed it,no problems since. good luck ,hope you get sorted. gordo

Mar 25th, 2006, 12:37	#10
Peter D Peter D Last Online: Mar 2nd, 2015 21:03 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Livingston	Slow Down Here. As Cliff says link fuses 4 and 6 together in the passenger foot well LHS fuse panel. This will fire the pumps up and you should be able to here them. Now try and start the car. If it is still no go then the Relay is probably OK. If you can not smell any fuel at the exhaust I suspect the Crank Postion sensor at he rear of the head mounted on top of the Bell Housing. Replacement part about £19 and was upgraded to stop this happening. With a faulty sensor you get NO spark or Fuel Injector Pulse or rev counter. This fault is not reported by the ECU. The resistance of this sensor measured at the bulkhead connector is 190 ohms but even with the correct resistance the output on cranking can be too low and the engine will not fire up. The newer ones have a white band on the cable. If when you have the fault and you could eventually re-start the engine, if it restarted cleanly as thou nothing had happened, i.e. it did not miss and pop and evenually burble into life, it just started cleanly then I would go for the sensor. A bit fiddley to change but necessary. From your decription it used to stall when you slowed right down i.e. at tick over, did it ever stall at higher rpm's Regards Peter Last edited by Peter D; Mar 25th, 2006 at 12:48.

Mar 24th, 2006, 21:17	#4
Clifford Pope Not an expert but ... Last Online: Today 14:20 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Boncath	Have you replaced the Crank Position Sensor on the top of the clutch bellhousing, at the back of the engine block? They famously start to fail with age, either just getting less sensitive, or the wiring insulation decays. Also look at the ignition amplifier, a flat metal plate bolted on the inner wing just in front of the battery. Both cause intermittant faults when they start to fail, and are sensitive to heat and weather.

Mar 24th, 2006, 23:20	#6
beckyh Guest Location:	Hi all, thanks for the replies. More things to consider. I checked the page for the pump relay so thats something we can check over the weekend. The priority at the moment is getting the car home so at least it can be looked at with tools we have here. My Dad can use a soldering iron so it won't be a problem if he has to solder some connectors again. Its all getting a bit too much, ideas from everywhere, people saying different things, spending money on different things. I will get him to try the things suggested. In the meantime does anyone know what the OHM readings should be for the ignition module? Thanks

Mar 25th, 2006, 09:21	#7
Clifford Pope Not an expert but ... Last Online: Today 14:20 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Boncath	I know the problem - where to start mending money, which advice to follow. But you can test, or eliminate, the fuel pump relay for nothing. Simply connect a wire between fuses 4 and 6, so that the fuel pumps run continuously. That by-passes the relay, and you can drive the car like that. Remember to disconnect as soon as you stop. If that temporarily cures the problem, then concentrate on the relay. If it doesn't, well at least that is one item off the list.

Mar 25th, 2006, 11:44	#8
beckyh Guest Location:	Hi Clifford, no can do at the moment, the car is now in what seems to be a no start position. Just will not start at all so would not be able to test the pump relay?

Mar 25th, 2006, 11:54	#9
beckyh Guest Location:	OKay if we test the pump relay by connecting 4-6 would that enable the car to start? Oh and where is the fuel pump relay fuses on the car? Is it easy to get to?

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