Caveat emptor - Are 900s now only "practical classics"

[Dr. Rog]

Caveat Emtor - Buyer Beware.

I have been following sales of 900s on ebay and the forum for some time now and looking at a lot of threads as I have recently had a terminal problem and have had to buy a new car.

It has saddened me that it now appears difficult to buy a 900 that is without failure. I choose "failure" rather than fault as no 13-20 year old car is perfect. What I mean is that bits have failed to work. Sometimes pretty important ones in threads posted here.

What gets my goat is that they are often maintenance related. That is someone scrimped on spending on a decent car in mid life, causing a problem to a later owner. My own "well maintained", car had: no O-ring seal on the dipstick, a bodged manifold stud, broken lumbar support, bodged rear cluster, broken headlight, quarter light, headlight wiper and no alarm fob. (Who insures their car as "alarm fitted"? )

So I thought a discussion thread was called for.

Are we agreed that 900s are now "practical classics" that is they need to be bought on condition rather than age and that the owner must expect to do an appreciable amount of rectification unless (and perhaps even if) the car was previously demonstrably and impeccably maintained?

[OldBlueVolvo]

It gets worse with the 700s. These cars are bought very cheaply and then run into the ground with little care for maintenance, only doing the minimum to pass an MOT. But, there are still many of them around, because they are such practical cars.

[tc]

Totaly agree, it sickens me when decent cars that are for sale have been left to fall apart because of sheer laziness on the owners part, several of the recent cars I've bought have had stupid faults...

[treehorndogsbody]

I think you are probably right in what you say, but I think it is people buying a Volvo and suddenly finding out the true cost of running it. We are told by TV, car dealers and the like that 'they go on forever', 'it will do 300,000 miles'! Yes they will with proper maintainance, and we all know what that costs. Most DIY owners do a sterling job on looking after their cars but with Dealer labour costs between £55 and £80 per hour many Volvos wind up in the small garages where they get a service with spurios parts, heaven alone knows what lubricants and the knowlege of Volvos or lack of it. All these building up to problems down the line. Even the company cars do not get recommended service items, my old boss would not pay for brake fluid, power steering fluid, and automatic gearbox oil changes on our fleet of prestige cars ,inc Volvos. He would say 'let the next owner worry about it', and with some of the cars covering over 100,000miles plus when they were sold, lacking some important service jobs to keep them in tip top condition. So as the Volvos pass down the line, the amount of maitainance gets neglected and most cars need work.
The last two 960s I have bought both needed new Nivomats and the owners were not prepared to spend £400 or so replacing them. You can always find a 900 series 'for sale' with the head gasket gone, loosing coolant, mysterious misfire, blowing exhaust( about £250 for a 960), faulty sunroof, lambda light on, needing a CAT,ABS light on, no MOT( but won't need much to pass the MOT) or other expensive faults. Owners are reluctant to spend £800 to have a head gasket done on a 960 that is only worth £1000, so sealant is added to the coolant and the car moves on to the next owner to decide wether they are prepared to invest the needed cash to keep what was a £30,000 luxury car, which is well built and a joy to drive, on the road.
Over the years I have spent, what some would consider, obscene amounts of money keeping my Volvos in the best condition I can, because I really enjoy owning them. Even a small dent or damaged bumper will cause insurance companys to write off, easily repaired cars, because of the cost of parts and refinishing. I like many other can only do simple jobs and have to have the service of a garage to do the rest, with all associated costs, and VAT goes to 20% in January, yet another knife in the poor old Volvo's back. I say to all Volvo owners on the Forum ' keep 'em running guys ' and ' long may the 900 series live ' the last of the true Volvos.

[Citizen.Agfa]

Hi, vocabulary nazi here - Caveat emptor, with a P!

Citizen Pedant.

[oman5]

you can't seriously be saying only those with a bank balance over a certain amount should drive Volvos?
Like it or not, the average 940 is no longer a prestige car and unlikely to be owned by somebody who keeps the service history stamped up at their local main dealer. Best to look after and cherish what you have or accept the fact that any car you buy will need remedial work carried out. good luck in your search for a perfect 15 year old car for £400.

[Dr. Rog]

Terrific replies guys.

700s are already practical classics in my book. Only someone with affection and a predisposition for TLC will take one on when there are more modern cars available for the same money. In a bizarre way that is good. It may actually make it easier to get a good one.

The evil fleet boss should be shot. I hope he has reason to regret his decision, (self control exerted to restrict visions of cars disintegrating at speed with him inside.)

Yes there is a P in emptor, I looked it up as well then copied the wrong one. must have been too late in the evening.

Personally I like the thought of driving rich men's cast-offs, they certainly don't want it. My car cost £23k at a time my house only cost £33k. I see it as ethical recycling. My Mother once had a 735i which cost someone £45k. She paid £800. It lasted her about 4 years. Cheap motoring and a glorious ride.

We certainly won't find a perfect car for £400, just a heap of bits. I think it is just a case of making sure you buy the right heap. How about this, might be worth a punt:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...17&mfe=sidebar

[Toplights]

I paid £410 for my P reg 960 back in April of this year.It has cost me £600,to get it near right(apart from dodgy door cards and slight missfire).What a car though,a lovely drive,well worth taking the trouble with.There is no way i could afford to run and maintain this old beast, without doing it myself,with the help of the members of this forum, and the younger muscles of my son.
You have to face up to the fact of never getting back what you spend on these older cars,they are never, (unless you are extreemly lucky)going to be an investment.

['88740GL]

Hello fellow volvo people,

5 months ago, i was a devoted vauxhall driver, considering my dads only ever drove vauxhall and never let him down, so i was a convert, and my first two cars of my drivng lives were vauxhalls, most recent one was a V reg diesel with 89,000 on the clock..i payed £990 for it.....

I've always loved the oppertunity of owning a big old volvo....and 5 months ago, i set out to track down and buy a volvo 850 saloon from somehwere in leeds for £495, but gave up because of needing to get down there someway, and money issues.

Sooo..that same week i was doing my usual travelling..and out of nowhere this F Reg 740GL Silver was parked up on the curb side with a sign:

FOR SALE
£ 350 O.N.O
Saloon Petrol
42,200 Miles

phone number XXXXXX

Alan Leonard.

£350?? Bargain! Looked around it....one or two scuffs around the corners of the bumpers...never mind, can't really see them, no rust or bubbles, a small scratch on the boot lid, can be repaired......Back window cracked top to bottom........ OUCH! I was upset, felt like a kick in the goonies... looked underneath.....not terrible, just surface corrosion in and around wheel arches, but one thing....the car had been waxoyled at some point....professionally.

looked inside, was like new! no faded or worn seats, leather around gear stick was new looking (even still creaks and smells like leather) ...CD player, heated seats, electric windows, heated mirrors, electric mirrors...No air conditioning....

I did want air conditioning after the though of last summer, sweating to death when climbing in a baking hot car.... but looking at this thing i waivered that...

Anyway, i phoned the guy, an old jewish guy (non orthodox hah) and he brought the keys down and started it up and shown me the engine....he convincingly told me;

'There is absolutely nothing one with this motor car, i have drove volvo and only volvos nearly all of my life, i bought this off an older gentleman who is getting too ill to drive, he used to use this car to get him to hospital'.

he also said he bought it as a stop-gap car, as his insurance was dealing with his current other car as some local yobs took a crow bar to a few of the windows, (where i live is a large jewish population, volvoville), so i can understand what he means when he told me people vandalize volvos around there..

Anyway, he took me for a test drive, and i was sceptical about the car, but feeling it float around the roads and accelerate at a seemingly sillly rate for such a big old car, i was a convert right there in that passenger seat!!

One thing i remember though, what that old guy told me 'what you have to understand is, that this is really a rich mans car, and i hope you have a chunky wallet, to spend the money on this car, its very heavy on the juice',

He told me he wasnt trying to put me off buying it, but he couldn't understand why a 23 year old man would want to but a car the same age as me!

Anyway, i drove it home that day put some petrol in it, spent 2 weeks bringing the slightly dulled paintwork back to showroom condition, spent 4 weeks underneath of it, wire brush and blasting of cakes of dried mud and road dust, took the wheels off and cleaned the calipers and checked brake pads, BRAND NEW! all brake pads all had serious meat on them (7 -10mm) all.

I invested in some waxoyl tins and areosol cans and have fully cleaned, and wire brushed any old flaky underseal or corrosion and repaired a few minor holes around the passenger wheel arch where the footwells are, then waxoyled over everything underneath. Hammerite the exhausts, the whole exhaust looks brand new!

Hoovered and cleaned the interior, all the nooks and crannies, polished a few times, took the ford cd player out and installed an 80's push button OEM volvo radio in there, brand new in box £45 quid! (guy wanted £70 for it!!)

Mechanically speaking, it has a genuine 42,200 miles on it, back then and all was needed was 4 new plugs, an oil & filter change, new coolant and some new injector seals to cure a weird cold idle and fuel consumption problem, flame trap cleaned... all done! Other than the preventitive maintenance and the TLC i give my first volvo its only costing me petrol money, and recently found out it runs its very best on 97-99 octane 4 star, which i have to make myself. I beleive it has hardened valve seats, but the lead does make the engine much smoother idling and the fumes don't stink like they used too, AND its burning less petrol too!

£350 volvo 740GL - everything works, except for the rear demist due to a broken window.

[Dr. Rog]

Investment? -never off course. No car can be driven and be an investment.
Cheap motoring, could be, I reckon £600 a year depreciation/parts plus labour.

Buy one with value and if it lasts a few years till you have to spend OK. Buy a cheap one and spend from day one.