Any Advice, Part 2!

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Chris152

Thanks Dave - hope you're feeling better in the morning!
C

Just checked the emery tape i'm using Chris, it's 120 grit but i'd suggest something a bit finer for the use you'll put it to so 160 or thereabouts.

[Chris152]

That's great - just ordered some 150. Looking closely, there's a fair bit of corrosion on the contacts of some of the fuses, so we'll get on with it at the weekend and, if the weather improves a bit, do the brakes too. Hope you're recovering/ recovered from that jab now.

Stephen - thanks for that, I searched all over the place and couldn't find any that clearly listed ceramic bodies so went ahead and bought some of the plastic ones as backup. I definitely think the swap for a blade box is a good way to go, looking forward to Bugjam's conversion!

Bugjam - is yours pre-1991? Wondering what adaptations might be needed to fit to ours.

[Chris152]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I can just about make out the R clips through the pad retaining pins Chris so looks like Girling to me. You'll need a pair of long-nose pliers and a pin punch to remove the pins.

The top R clip is fairly eay to see, camera angle doesn't help on the bottom one but i've circled the top one and where the bottom one should be.



I'd give it a wire brushing first to remove any loost rust, apply a little penetrating fluid to the pad retaining pins where they go through the caliper then pull the R clips using the long nose pliers.

Use a pin punch on the inboard end of the pad retaining pins and drift the pins out using a hammer on the end of the punch. The punch should be as close to the size of the pad pins as possible but slightly smaller - not so small as it dishes the end of the pin and not so big that it gets stuck in the caliper.

Remove the anti-rattle spring (the H-shaped spring that locates under the pad retaining pins) after the pad pins are out, withdraw the pads and anti-squeal shims (if fitted).

My idea of the G-Clamp may not work as well as i first thought as it looks like (from your picture) you have pistons in both sides of the caliper, it's not a single piston sliding caliper as i thought it would be.

Remove the rubber dust cap (assuming it's survived the past 30 ish years) from the bleed nipple and give it a wire brushing followed by some penetrating fluid around the nipple. Find the correct size ring spanner to fit the bleed nipple (often 8 or 10mm) and put the spanner on followed by the one-way bleed valve. Slacken the nipple by ~1/4 turn and use either the pad spreader or long screwdriver or similar to ease the pistons back into the caliper. Sometimes it helps to temporarily refit the thicker pad in between the other piston and the one you're working on to prevent that one popping out.

Once you have the first piston fully in, temporarily fit one of the new pads in front of it, remove the old one from the other side and push that piston back in too then close the bleed nipple.
Remove the temporarily fitted new pad so you have access to both sides of the disc for a file. Wedge the file in so it's acting on the edge of the disc where there will be a slight lip which you can see easily on your pic. Use a long handled screwdriver between two or three of the wheel studs to rotate the hub/disc while holding the file against the edge of the disc to remove the lip, repeat for the other side of the disc.

Clean the surfaces of the caliper where the pads move in them and now grab the new pads and the file. Go round the metal edges of the pads removing any burrs, drips of paint etc that may cause them to stick in the caliper. Apply some copper grease to the metal backs of the pads and on the edges where they make contact with the caliper - the old pads should have witness marks to indicate where they are.
If it had (or the new pads come with) anti-squeal shims, press one onto the copper grease on the back of the pad and smear some of the copper grease onto the mating face of the shim that meets the piston. Insert the pad into the caliper and repeat for the other pad.

Clean the pad retaining pins with a wire brush and smear copper grease on lightly. Fit the lower one first, ensuring it goes through the anti-squeal shim holes as well as through the pads - push it home finger tight. Make sure the hole for the R clip is at an angle you can easily refit the R clip.

Now refit the H-shaped anti-rattle spring, locating the bottom of it under the lower pad retaining pin. Now repeat the pad pin procedure above with the top one, ensuring you catch the anit-rattle spring under the pin both ends - a small screwdriver helps to push the anti-rattle spring down to make life easier.

Once both pad pins are in, refit the R clips, pump the brake pedal a few times to ensure it is firm and the pistons have moved in to take up the clearance.

Repeat all of this for the other side and finally once everything is back in place with new pads, check and top up if necessary the brake fluid reservoir under the bonnet.

If you find the pedal is spongey (not springy, new pads will make it springy until they bed in) then it would be advisable to bleed both rear calipers. There shouldn't be any air in them but it sometimes happens.

Other than that, give it a road test to make sure the back brakes work (reversing then hitting the brakes will show them to be working or not) and go and have a well-earned coffee/tea/beer/whatever - delete as appropriate.

I don't think i've missed anything, i'm sure others will soon pipe up if i have though!

Job done! A brief respite in the endless hurricanes, so we finally got on with it. The brakes work well, no pulling/ sponginess or whatever.

The only real 'deviation' from the plan was the bleed nipple - we set it up as per, 8mm spanner to do 1/4 turn, compressed the pistons back (£12 spent on a spreader like the one you linked to, Loki, was great), but no brake fluid appeared in the pipe. Tightened the nipple up after spreading, did the other side but then realised - I think the nut is 7mm, so I guess that explains why no fluid came out! We were fortunate - the fluid didn't overflow in the reservoir, and the nuts don't seem to be rounded over (at least not so much as to cause a problem in future).

I'm going to check the brake fluid level in the reservoir today - it may be a bit low as it didn't overflow? That said, a friend who likes to work on his cars told me a while back that he'd done several over the years and never had to remove any fluid from the reservoir (as per Haynes' instructions) or fit a bleed pipe. As I say, maybe we just got lucky.

Thanks for the instructions, Dave - I printed them out and they were a real help!

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Chris152

The only real 'deviation' from the plan was the bleed nipple - we set it up as per, 8mm spanner to do 1/4 turn, compressed the pistons back (£12 spent on a spreader like the one you linked to, Loki, was great), but no brake fluid appeared in the pipe. Tightened the nipple up after spreading, did the other side but then realised - I think the nut is 7mm, so I guess that explains why no fluid came out! We were fortunate - the fluid didn't overflow in the reservoir, and the nuts don't seem to be rounded over (at least not so much as to cause a problem in future).

The purpose of opening the bleed nipple Chris wasn't to prevent the fluid overflowing the brake reservoir although that's a useful thing itself. The main purpose was to NOT push dirt back up the brake lines to the ABS modulator block or master cylinder as dirt is the big enemy of both of those and can cause failure.

Other than that, a job well done - might be worth considering changing all the brake fluid if you don't know when it was last done - very easy with a Gunsons Eezibleed.

[Chris152]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

The purpose of opening the bleed nipple Chris wasn't to prevent the fluid overflowing the brake reservoir although that's a useful thing itself. The main purpose was to NOT push dirt back up the brake lines to the ABS modulator block or master cylinder as dirt is the big enemy of both of those and can cause failure.

Other than that, a job well done - might be worth considering changing all the brake fluid if you don't know when it was last done - very easy with a Gunsons Eezibleed.

Yes, I'd seen about that somewhere in my reading (dirty fluid problems). And yes, I'd been wondering about a fluid change, I'd place money on its not having been changed in a long time. I'll invest in a 7mm spanner before we start on that! Some Sunday reading for me... :-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Chris152

Yes, I'd seen about that somewhere in my reading (dirty fluid problems). And yes, I'd been wondering about a fluid change, I'd place money on its not having been changed in a long time. I'll invest in a 7mm spanner before we start on that! Some Sunday reading for me... :-)

You can check the brake fluid easily and cheaply with one of these Chris :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114396159192

My Volvo fluid is showing 1-2% contamination (it's about 3-4 years old) and the Rover is off the scale because it's about 10-11 years old!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274806861788

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130759082496

Two links to the Eezibleed kit there, first is a new/never used one previously bought by someone else on an auction listing. If you'd prefer to buy new with a guarantee and all the bits provided (always a chance the purchaser of the new/never used one has lost some of the bits) then i'd suggest the second one. You'll almost certainly have the standard Girling screw cap on your brake fluid reservoir and a cap is supplied with that fitting.

Using the Eezibleed is simplicity itself, pump your spare tyre up to at least 20psi (i use 30-35psi to overcome the ABS valves which take a fair bit of pressure), fill the bottle with new brake fluid, attach the cap to the reservoir, open the bleed nipple (with a length of tubing to direct it into a container) on the first in the bleeding sequence and connect the air connector to the spare tyre. When clean fluid comes through, close the nipple and remove the connector from the tyre. Repeat for the second, third etc nipples in the bleed sequence.

This is quite a good video showing the Eezibleed in action, a bit waffley in places but all useful stuff for the most part. It's also centred on an MGB which may seem a strange choice but the master cylinder cap is similar (maybe the same) and he's fairly thorough in his descriptions. If you forget it's an MGB and transpose your thinking to Volvo, it should be very helpful :

https://youtu.be/0UFqJFathco

In practice you can leave the tyre connected all the time but try to minimise the time it's connected without having a bleed valve open. Also keep an eye on the fluid level in the bottle and don't forget to disconnect the tyre before topping up!

I'm not sure of the bleeding sequence on yours and it will vary between ABS and non-ABS cars, using a clear tube from the bleed nipple to the receptacle will let you see when the fresh fluid comes through.

[Chris152]

Thanks Dave - really helpful. Couple of questions:
1. Is the fact that we didn't allow the fluid to escape through the bleed nipple enough to say we need to replace the fluid asap? My guess is the fluid is old, so that's got to be a factor - tho we do have a testing thingy, I think it was Alan who suggested we get one. So we can double check.
2. Is it normal to remove the wheel to access the bleed nipple while doing this, or can you do it from underneath reasonably? I've looked at the bleed sequence - that's a lot of on-and-off of wheels, esp as to raise the rear ones to put it on an axle stand I have to first lift each corner with the scissors jack to allow access for our trolley jack plus block under the trailing arm! (The trailing arm is too low otherwise.) Or is it enough to work on each with just the trolley jack straight on the jacking point, since we're not going to be getting underneath at all?

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Chris152

Thanks Dave - really helpful. Couple of questions:
1. Is the fact that we didn't allow the fluid to escape through the bleed nipple enough to say we need to replace the fluid asap? My guess is the fluid is old, so that's got to be a factor - tho we do have a testing thingy, I think it was Alan who suggested we get one. So we can double check.
2. Is it normal to remove the wheel to access the bleed nipple while doing this, or can you do it from underneath reasonably? I've looked at the bleed sequence - that's a lot of on-and-off of wheels, esp as to raise the rear ones to put it on an axle stand I have to first lift each corner with the scissors jack to allow access for our trolley jack plus block under the trailing arm! (The trailing arm is too low otherwise.) Or is it enough to work on each with just the trolley jack straight on the jacking point, since we're not going to be getting underneath at all?

1. That's one of "those" questions Chris, no definitive answer although i would suggest changing the fluid ASAP in any case. The tester Alan suggested will almost certainly be the one i linked to as i told Alan about it after buying one myself. Worth spending 30 seconds to check the condition of the fluid regardless, if it's more than 2% contaminated then it's urgent regardless. If it's 1-2% then certainly needs doing soon!

2. On mine the bleeding sequence (from memory) is rear left, reear right, front left, front right.
I loosened the wheels nuts ~1/4-1/2 turn then jacked the rear on the diff (using the hockey puck) then using a 1/4 hex to 1/2" square adaptor in my cordless drill, removed the wheel nuts from the wheel i was working on. Wheel off then slide it either under the hub or the sill so if anything did go wrong i'd have those extra few inches of space.
As you point out, you're not getting completely under the car so i consider this safe enough. Alternatively an axle stand under each end of the axle and let the jack down gently until the axle is just resting on the stands.

Something i found made the bleed sequence easier to get into my head was ignoring the bit about removing the wheels in the HBoF. Once you rationalise it down to the exact sequence of wheels, you can work out your wheel removal plan

With mine, as you can see it was both rears first which made life easier. Jack the back, removed both wheels, bled both sides, refitted the wheels.

Then did similar on the front. There's a central load plate/jacking plate on mine so again i lifted the whole front end, removed the wheels, bled then refitted the wheels.

Hope that gives you a few ideas!

[Chris152]

Apologies Dave, and all helping - I'd intended to post a reply saying, 'job done' but things dragged on and then my mum ended up in hospital and things have been sketchy since.
We checked the brake fluid and it registered 3% so definitely needs changing (the scale went up to 4%). Given the circumstances, I called the volvo garage and they charge £47 to do the job all in (hardly more than parts to do it ourselves), so I think I'll just book it in with them and get it done - tho even committing to a specific day's tricky at the moment. We've sprayed the bleed nipples so they'll undo easier.
Oh, and we changed the window scrapers yesterday, that definitely felt good!
Thanks all, C

[Laird Scooby]

No worries Chris, glad it all went well and sorry to hear about your mum - i hope she's fully recovered/recovering well by now!